Most PMs still think velocity = impact. They're wrong. If no one on your team owns adoption, retention, or revenue—then growth isn't anyone's job.

Jayson Robinson joins Convergence.fm to unpack why most product teams are built to ship—but not to grow. From leading growth at Toptal and BairesDev to advising SaaS companies and launching enterprise products at M&S, Jayson has seen where traditional product orgs fall apart—and what high-agency PMs actually do differently.

We cover how to spot deadweight roles, when founders need to let go, and what happens when you hire people who are better at agile ceremonies than business outcomes.

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

• Why velocity without measurable outcomes is a red flag

• The critical differences between growth PMs and generalist PMs

• What high-agency PMs do that process-driven PMs can't replicate

• How to interview for ownership, not just experience

• The real reason "translator" PMs are getting phased out

• What happened when HP focused on output over market alignment

• How Duolingo's growth org became its engine of compounding retention

• Why founders who don't let go end up being the ceiling

• Lessons from Netflix, Shopify, and Linear on org design that scales

Mentioned in this episode

• The HP Way by David Packard — Buy the book

• Duolingo's Growth Strategy — Lenny Rachitsky breakdown

• Shopify Product Leadership — First Round article

• Linear's Product Development Approach — Read on Linear's blog

• High Agency Hiring — Michael Dearing on First Round

• Jayson's blog post on the future of PM roles: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jaysonkrobinson_the-product-manager-role-is-speciating-activity-7315760215277121536-1LcF?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAGxt90BvpkwcznT5WbhfSl0aK9PPNhWLy4

• Mind the product talk by ElevenLabs and build measure learn cycle

• Jason's Linkedin profile

Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge.

Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast

Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.

Follow the Pod

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/convergence-podcast/

X: https://twitter.com/podconvergence

Instagram: @podconvergence