What if we could build our world from scratch—with health, justice, and thriving communities at its core?

In his new book Imagine Doing Better: Why Policies Backfire and How Prevention Thinking Can Change Everything, Dr. Paul J. Fleming, Associate Professor in the Department of Health Behavior and Health Education at the University of Michigan, argues that prevention—and imagination—should guide how we shape the future.

In this conversation, Salma and Paul explore what our great-great-great-great-grandchildren might say about the choices we’re making today, and how we can reimagine the systems that define our lives—from healthcare and education to the environment, justice, and public safety. Together, they discuss how prevention thinking moves beyond treating problems after they arise to transforming the structures that create them in the first place.

They also grapple with deeper questions: Are current reforms truly changing the systems that cause harm—or simply reinforcing them? Who gets to shape the conversation about the policies and practices that define a better tomorrow? And how do we sustain hope in generational work that, like a relay race, depends on each generation taking concrete steps and handing the baton forward from a stronger starting point?

Useful resources:

• Fleming PJ. Imagine Doing Better Why Policies Backfire and How Prevention Thinking Can Change Everything. Johns Hopkins University Press; 2025.
• Fleming PJ. Making a Better World Possible. https://pjfleming.com/newsletter

Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla
Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares
Marketing: Kinkini Bhaduri
Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/