What if the people running online scams weren't criminals by choice—but victims themselves?

In this episode, we talk with Ivan Franceschini and Ling Li, authors of Scam: Inside Southeast Asia's Cybercrime Compounds, about the hidden world of online fraud across Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos, and the Philippines. Based on years of fieldwork, their book reveals how thousands of people are trafficked or coerced into "pig-butchering" romance scams and investment cons inside prison-like compounds.

Franceschini and Li explain how organized crime, corruption, and technology have turned Southeast Asia into a global hub for cybercrime—and how many of the perpetrators are actually victims of modern slavery.

Ivan Franceschini is a lecturer at the Asia Institute at the University of Melbourne, where he studies transnational crime and labor issues in China and Southeast Asia. Ling Li is a PhD researcher at Ca' Foscari University of Venice, focusing on technology's role in modern slavery and human trafficking. She also works directly with survivors of scam compounds across the region.