Welcome to "AI or Not," the podcast where we explore the intersection of digital transformation and real-world wisdom, hosted by the accomplished Pamela Isom. With over 25 years of experience guiding leaders in corporate, public, and private sectors, Pamela, the CEO and Founder of IsAdvice & Consulting LLC, is a veteran in successfully navigating the complex realms of artificial intelligence, innovation, cyber issues, governance, data management, and ethical decision-making.

Dive into a mind-expanding journey through four decades of technology evolution with Stephen Pullum, a veteran who's been working with AI since before most people knew it existed. From his early days programming a Commodore 64 in 1982 to managing sophisticated AI systems for the Air Force in the late 1980s, Stephen offers a rare historical perspective that helps us understand today's AI revolution.
Stephen introduces us to the crucial role of the Chief AI Security Officer (CAISO)—a position he's pioneered to bridge the dangerous gap between traditional cybersecurity and AI governance. "Your basic CISO doesn't understand AI systems," he explains, "while your AI officers don't understand enterprise security." This disconnect creates vulnerabilities that organizations are only beginning to recognize.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Stephen shares his experiments with agentic AI systems like Mantis and GenSpark. Through a technique he calls "shadow prompting," he demonstrates how these autonomous agents can function more as partners than tools, making decisions and collaborating without constant human intervention. Imagine a world where multiple AI agents verify each other's work before humans even see it—that future is closer than we think.
Perhaps most thought-provoking is Stephen's challenge to conventional wisdom about AI guardrails and bias. He makes a critical distinction between policies (which people follow or break) and true guardrails (which actively prevent harm), arguing that many organizations confuse the two. And on the controversial topic of AI bias, he offers a perspective that will make you question common assumptions: "There isn't any such thing as AI bias. AI is programmed by individuals who are in their own communities. Anything outside their communities doesn't fit into the algorithm."
Whether you're a seasoned AI professional or just beginning to explore this field, Stephen's insights from the frontlines of technology evolution will expand your understanding of where we've been and where we're heading. As he says with infectious enthusiasm, "Enjoy the ride. You don't know what's in the labs. You have no idea what's coming next."