Bret and Nirmal discuss the intersection of AI agents and DevOps with Solomon Hykes, co-founder of Dagger and Docker. Solomon introduces Container Use, an open-source MCP server that gives coding agents isolated, containerized environments to work in, solving the critical problem of agents interfering with each other when running on the same system.

🙌 My next course is coming soon! I've opened the waitlist for those wanting to go deep in GitHub Actions for DevOps and AI automation in 2025. I'm so thrilled to announce this course. The waitlist allows you to quickly sign up for some content updates, discounts, and more as I finish building the course.
https://courses.bretfisher.com/waitlist 🍾

Also in this episode, we explore how AI agents are forcing a fundamental shift in CI/CD practices, with Solomon making the case that traditional CI/CD as we know it will disappear because agents develop 100x faster than humans and can't tolerate slow, unrepeatable build processes. Container Use enables developers to run multiple coding agents in parallel, each in their own sandboxed environment.

We examine the emerging MCP ecosystem and its potential trajectory, drawing parallels to how containers evolved from developer tools to infrastructure platforms. Solomon warns about the rapid "gatekeeping" phase already happening with MCP, where vendors rush to lock down and monetize what started as an open developer innovation space.

Other topics we touch on are: the four core components of agentic workflows, security challenges with untrusted text injection (the new "SQL injection" problem), token cost management, and the importance of balancing proprietary AI services with open-source infrastructure layers.

Check out the video podcast version here: https://youtu.be/ZSbCPIAKGlc

Creators & Guests

• Bret Fisher - Host
• Beth Fisher - Producer
• Cristi Cotovan - Editor
• Nirmal Mehta - Host
• Solomon Hykes - Guest

• (00:00) - Intro
• (07:11) - MCP Server and Integration
• (16:57) - Future of CI/CD and Agentic Workflows
• (20:22) - Four Areas of Concern
• (26:15) - The New Gatekeepers
• (47:09) - Token Costs vs Efficiency
• (48:49) - Balancing Open Source and Proprietary Systems
• (49:27) - The Rise of Kubernetes and MCP
• (50:21) - Security Concerns with LLMs and MCP
• (55:39) - Advice for Developers in a Rapidly Changing Landscape
• (59:11) - Introducing Container Use into Your Workflow
• (01:02:29) - The Future of AI and DevOps
• (01:09:17) - Coding Agent Blind Spots
• (01:13:43) - Scaling with Dagger and Kubernetes
• (01:15:47) - The Dagger Community

You can also support my free material by subscribing to my YouTube channel and my weekly newsletter at bret.news!

Grab the best coupons for my Docker and Kubernetes courses.
Join my cloud native DevOps community on Discord.
Grab some merch at Bret's Loot Box
Homepage bretfisher.com

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★