In the first MuniSquare Book

discussioin Podcast, colleagues dive into Paul Bloom’s provocative book Against Empathy. Bloom argues that emotional empathy can mislead us, create bias, and open us to manipulation. Instead, he proposes cultivating rational compassion.

Our panel wrestles with the book’s claims—exploring empathy’s role in public service, the ethics of neutrality, manipulation of emotions in politics, and whether empathy can help us navigate today’s polarized climate.

Dr. Tom Bryer is Pegasus professor in the School of Public Administration at the University of Central Florida,

Dr. Mike Rowe is Senior Lecturer in Public Sector Management at University of Liverpool, UK

Matt Candland is manager of South Boston, Virginia

Dr. Mandie Cantlin is manager at East Bradford Township, Pennsylvania

Key Chapters & Timestamps

• [00:00] Introduction
• Overview of Paul Bloom’s book and the central question: is empathy always good, or can it lead us astray?
• [00:03] Tom’s Opening Challenge
• Emotional empathy vs. cognitive empathy; empathy’s unintended consequences in society
• [00:05] Matt’s Critique
• The “degree of empathy” and the need for moral grounding; empathy tethered to worldviews
• [00:06] Mike’s Perspective
• Empathy doesn’t always lead to action; questioning the head/heart divide
• [00:10] Mandie on Public vs. Private Roles
• How empathy differs when acting as an individual versus as a public servant
• [00:14] Politics, Torture, and the War on Terror
• Examples of how empathy is tethered and manipulated in high-stakes decision making
• [00:17] Manipulation of Emotions
• Willie Horton case, political campaigns, and the spotlight effect in policymaking
• [00:21] Empathy, Charity, and Bias
• Fundraising appeals and the effectiveness (and risks) of emotional storytelling
• [00:27] History as a Lens
• Carlisle Indian School as an example of empathy tethered to destructive cultural values
• [00:31] Rationality vs. Emotionality
• Debating whether reason and empathy can truly be separated
• [00:32] Empathy in Leadership
• Emotional intelligence, authenticity, and shifting trends in public leadership
• [00:33] Political Violence and Empathy
• Reflections on the shooting of Charlie Kirk, empathy’s role in both violence and reconciliation
• [00:39] Closing Reflections
• Final verdicts: qualified support for empathy but with cautions on its limits