In this episode of the CEOAFTERDARK Podcast, George Kapernaros sits down with Kath Pay — one of the earliest pioneers of email marketing. With 27+ years of experience, Kath shares how she went from running a web design company in Australia to launching one of the first email marketing platforms, and why she still believes email is stronger than ever.

Kath explains what “holistic email marketing” really means, how to align strategy with business goals, and how to handle the constant pressure for revenue targets. We also explore her new Holistic Email Academy and discuss how AI is reshaping — but not replacing — the role of marketers.

If you’re in retention, CRM, or just curious about the future of email marketing, this episode is packed with timeless lessons and fresh insights.