You can tell by Dan's vocal fry that he wasn't feeling too well. It might have been dehydration, but Dan wonders if other frustrations might actually be the root cause. In this episode, John and Dan talk about phygital relationships, give us courage in the face of change, discuss what might be turning people away from church, the essence of wisdom, church tribalism, abandoning our church facilities and FALSELY CLAIM that episode 03 wraps the conversation.