🎙️ Apostles: Generals, Gardeners…or Something Else?

In this Bonus Conversation, Rob Wegner, Alan Hirsch, and Brian Johnson gather over pizza to explore why apostolic leadership has become a crossroads moment for the Church.

They unpack two radically different visions: apostles as empire-building generals vs. apostles as humble architects who cultivate Gospel ecosystems. From Alan’s personal stories (including being recruited by a secret dominionist cabal) to reflections on the Seven Mountains Mandate, this conversation names the tensions—and offers a better way forward.

Listen in as they discuss:

• The dangers of power and platform without accountability

• Why we need both Pauline (pioneering) and Petrine (remissionalizing) apostles

• How dominion language drifts from the way of Jesus

• Practical steps for living into decentralized, relational, generative leadership

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