In this compelling episode of Sustainability Wired, Lorenzo Saa is joined by Dario Mangilli, Head of Sustainability at Impact SGR, to explore how sustainable and impact investing must evolve for a world facing accelerating climate impacts, geopolitical instability, and a post-ESG landscape.

Building on a conversation sparked at a conference in Milan, Lorenzo and Dario unpack what it means to invest in what he calls a “disaster economy”, a world where physical climate risks are arriving earlier than expected, traditional ESG frameworks are losing relevance, and investors are being pushed toward a more thematic, impact-driven approach.

Dario offers a unique perspective shaped by his climate policy background, academic training, and hands-on work designing listed impact strategies. Together, they discuss how to scale impact beyond niche allocations, why systemic impact investing is urgently needed, and how structural trends, from energy security to demographics and AI, will determine where capital must flow next.

Key topics include:

✅️ Impact investing at scale: Why limiting impact to 0.5–1% of pension fund portfolios is no longer viable.

✅️ ESG is over: Why generalist ESG frameworks fail—and how thematic, impact-focused strategies can replace them.

✅️ Climate risk underestimated: Satellite data showing physical risks arriving a decade earlier than models predicted.

✅️ Energy security & the Green Deal: How Europe “sold it wrong” and why sustainability must be framed around affordability and competitiveness.

✅️ Regulation that works vs. noise: SFDR, SFDR 2.0, labels, and why disclosure alone won’t drive capital.

✅️ Systemic impact approach: Applying intentionality, measurability, and impact limits across listed strategies.

✅️ AI as a structural trend: Power demand, cooling constraints, stretched valuations, and why AI could be a massive net positive—with guardrails.

✅️ Defense, mispriced sectors, and the future of sustainability narratives.

Whether you're an investor, policymaker, or sustainability leader, this episode offers a bold rethinking of how we need to invest, financially and ethically, for a world that is already changing faster than expected.

🎧 Listen now to understand how impact investing can become a systemic, future-proof investment paradigm.

Key Moments:

00:01 - Lorenzo sets the frame: investing in a “disaster economy”

02:22 - Dario’s path into sustainability & listed impact investing

05:26 - Why impact must scale beyond private markets

16:22 - The post-ESG shift: thematic investing as the new sustainable framework

19:10 - Climate risks arriving faster than expected

21:15 - Structural trends reshaping markets

27:52 - Regulation that drives capital vs. regulation that drives compliance

35:55 - A new operating model for sustainable investing

42:38 - AI as a structural force, and a sustainability challenge

47:40 - Art, metaphors & quickfire insights

51:31 - Closing: Investing for a rapidly changing world

📩Like, comment, and subscribe to stay up to date on sustainability, AI, and the evolving role of technology in finance.