129 Lineup Strategy, Surfing Technique And Reading The Ocean With Surf Coach Matt Scorringe Podcast

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129 Lineup Strategy, Surfing Technique and Reading the Ocean with Surf Coach Matt Scorringe

20h ago

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What if the key to unlocking your best surfing isn’t how you ride a wave - but how you read the ocean before you even paddle for it?

Whether you're a seasoned surfer or just stepping up to steeper waves, too many of us overlook the 99% of surfing that happens off the board. In this eye-opening episode, elite surf coach Matt Scorringe shares why ocean knowledge - not tricks or turns - is the hidden edge that separates good surfers from great ones. If you’ve ever felt lost in the lineup, struggled with wave selection, or wondered how top surfers always seem to be in the right spot, this conversation is for you.

Discover the missing piece in most surf coaching: how reading the ocean gives you faster decision-making, greater confidence, and better waves.
Learn how to turn crowded lineups into a game of strategy, not frustration, using Matt’s unique “first line of defense” approach.
Explore how treating the ocean like a playground—not a proving ground - can unlock more joy, progression, and long-term success in your surfing journey.

Hit play now to learn how rethinking your approach to wave reading and lineup dynamics can instantly elevate your surfing experience.

https://www.theartofsurfing.com

Use Discount Code: "surfmastery25" for 25% discount on Matts Academy and Remote coaching program.

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https://www.instagram.com/mattyscorringe/?hl=en

Transcript:

Michael Frampton: yeah, it is. I actually think that most surf courses miss the mark anyway because 99% of your time when you are surfing is not surfing. You are, you're literally paddling around or sitting there reading the ocean, trying to stay focused on the horizon, trying to decipher you look at this little sliver of ocean.

Are you gonna paddle over there to get the wave off the crowd or are you gonna paddle over there? Do you want that wave? What's the wind doing? How many swells are in the water? Like all that stuff that makes you a great surfer. People, people don't focus on it. So I actually, I actually released a course that's all about how to read waves.

There's nothing

Yeah.

To do with basically what happens between when the surfboard is under your arm and under your feet.

Yeah.

Because once you're on to your feet, that's been done to death. And yeah. I wanna segue that into what, in terms of like reading the ocean and reading water, , do you coach people on some of your elites on that sort of stuff?

Do you spend much time on it? What are your thoughts?

Matt Scorringe : Yeah, absolutely. I mean, with regards to like more high performance athletes that I train, you know, there's a clear, difference between those that have, that really do and those that don't. So again, once on feet, both equally fantastic surfers, but one just has a higher level of ocean knowledge and understanding and, and able to read and, you know, you run.

Drill after drill on scenario after scenario and pressure situation after pressure situation and all of that ocean knowledge just, um, you know, means obviously they're gonna read the ocean better, but their confidence is higher and their decision making processes are faster because of the nuances that they're picking up and processing and, and making decisions on to get those waves that go underneath for that wave that didn't look like maybe an opportunity to the other surfer.

Uh, and then if you drop it down to like more of my everyday clientele, uh, and a lot of my online clientele with, you know, the, the academy membership or my remote coaching, um, a massive part of what I try and get them to do is actually film more of them. With, uh, a camera that's like not on wave, just them roaming the ocean and, and looking to catch waves.

So, you know, zoom it out, push record and let it sit there and have your GPS tracker. And it's amazing what learnings come from that, that you can just pick up, um, that you wouldn't otherwise. And yeah, it's a huge, huge pillar that is really overlooked in most coaching scenarios. Uh, and if you've got someone on a one on one lesson for an hour and a half, like there's only so much you can do in that time, right?

Like, hey, this is the day's conditions, this is where the rip is, this is the kind of, you know, the period. And, um, this is kind of where the bank is. , And you can assess what you, you might want to in that moment, but really you're getting such a small snapshot of the, their, their decision making and their, their ocean knowledge.

, So I, I really enjoy having more of a longer. Time with my remote coaching clientele to actually assess that, give them, you know, training drills and strategies and games. I, I call them games to play, and then they can go out and start to do their own assessments of those outcomes. And that's really my ultimate goal is to teach self-assessment.

, And to play with different, different, uh, strategies in the ocean to, to learn, you know, I mean, when we're kids, we learn about the ocean through play. Like we're jumping in the shore break, we're swimming in the rip, we're, you know, boogie boarding along closeouts with the boys and you know, that's where you understand all of those, those things that the ocean, uh, teach you.

Michael Frampton: , Yeah. Most great surfers had that childhood early on where they, yeah, there was no pressure to even stand up on a surfboard. It's just, just messing around in the ocean. Yeah, makes me think of Wingnut. I interviewed Wingnut a few years ago and he didn't start surfing till he was 17, and I thought that that's such a unique case.

Someone's starting surfing so late and becoming so good at it. That didn't make sense to me. I almost didn't believe him. But then he told me he had been body surfing since he was five, and I was like, ah, of course. Yeah, you've got already got the wave, the wave knowledge, the, the way you read water is already there.

That's, that's your fundamental school. You're comfortable in the ocean. 'cause surfing, when you think about it, one, once you're on your feet, it's not actually that hard. I mean, look at, look at someone like OIE who barely even, and John, John too. They barely move their bodies at all, right? Yeah, yeah. Kelly's unique.

He moves his body all over the place. But someone like AKI is just that, that those subtle movements of changes of balance and direction and it's amazing how you technically, you could be really stiff and inflexible. And not move that much and still be a great surfer, but only if you can stand, get to your feet in the right part of the wave on a good wave with, and then have good timing.

And it all essentially comes from reading, reading the ocean and being comfortable in the ocean.

Matt Scorringe : Yeah, no, I, I, I agree. I mean, really when you distill, uh, technical surfing on a wave, and sometimes, you know, I, with the, the profession I'm in and other coaches you are sort of, do people not see how simple this technical piece is that they're missing?

Right. And obviously we have trained eyes, so, , I say that respectfully or lightly, that you're like, it's amazing. People still will look at their own footage and not identify, Hey, your back arm is, you know, really low when you swing through your twist. So if we can get that higher, it's gonna open up your chest rotation.

So there's those things technically. , But they're so much more easier and obvious to really see for anyone. And once you teach them that they can see it themselves and they see it in other surfers., But the ocean is, it's, you know, easy to say to an adult or a late starting client, you need to have had all this experience as a kid, right?

And you haven't, so it's gonna be hard. And, and that's, that's really demotivating for them. So, you know, I try to change it around to, uh, you have to pretend you're a kid again. You have to treat the ocean like a playground, and you need to be, you know, very wasteful and okay with falling and failure in the process of learning how the ocean moves, uh, obviously within a realm of safety and don't sort of paddle out to, um, you know, a, a big reef break and sort of just muck around if it's, it's beyond your sort of capabilities, but at your local, at, at your, your local beach break or just learning an environment.

, It's all about, yeah, in my opinion, having. Like, I've got these strategies I use to teach them how to, you know, understand crowd movement too, and manage, , you know, a, a way to kind of work around that and option A, B, C, D, but also just treat it like a game. So if option a's not working, learn from it, move to B and so on, and be wasteful of that session when it's crowded.

Like, okay, it's crowded anyway, so if I get a couple, that's gonna be a great day. So I might as well have a little trial and error of this strategy. Uh, let's see if this works. I mean, I do it myself all the time, like when I travel and I, I surf as a point a lot or padang when I'm in Bali. , You know, I'm literally going through my strategies and trying, and some days strategy A will just work straight away and I'm, I'm on and I think, oh, how good's this?

Like, you know, I found a little little gap in the, in the, the chaos out here. And then other days, you know, I get to strategy C or D before I'm like, wow, that's. That those other ones really aren't working today. Like there's five or 6, 7, 8, 10, 15 other people playing the same game as me right now. I need, I need to, I need to shift, you know, and I need to try something different.

And sometimes none of them work too, but you know, you, you gotta almost smile and have fun with it in those moments.

Michael Frampton: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's great advice for anyone starting surfing is just play. Just don't put pressure on yourself to perform at all. It's really important. But you also mentioned crowd stuff, which segues into something else I wanted to discuss, which is etiquette.

Any of those strategies you mentioned,, consider etiquette. What are your thoughts on etiquette? , Have you seen any of the recent, um, social media stuff? I mean, get stabbed at an article recently about kooks and Barley and Surfline did a little thing about being closest to the peak and there's been a, a few Instagram, , influences, you know, chatting about it.

And I interviewed Holly Beck about it, , a couple of weeks ago as well. So what are your thoughts on et.

Matt Scorringe : Well, I mean, at the core of etiquette, that comes down to, , surfing with respect for others. Right? And, and so my thoughts on etiquette is it needs, there needs to be etiquette. , What are the rules?

And, and, and, you know, what, what dictates the right way to do it. , I know it's gonna start with an answer that sounds like top level, , but it is so dependent on situation, , the wave type, the level of the surface. So a lot of the strategies I teach clients, , start with clearly assessment, you know, tools to assess what a pack is doing.

, One of the, one of the more effective ones is I what I call identifying the first line of defense. So I kind of have these sort of analogies that tie into war because when you go out there sometimes it's like you're going into a fight or into war. , And so who are those sort of soldiers, that first line of defense that they're trying to lock down?

The, the peak or the, you know, the, the, the main takeoff spot and how many of them are there, are they working in synergy, you know, like a local spot where they're like clearly clustering together to, to kind of, , surround that, that, that best spot? Or is it a spot like, , you know, being in, or again, maybe deserts where, you know, there's just a lot of people trying their own individual plan in that moment.

And so, you know, allowing these first line of defense people to have that kind of, authority that they want to have out there. , But playing underneath them and, and almost using that against them, , is something that, you know, you can do. And I know it's kind of hard to articulate just over a conversation, but when you have modules and you're sort of showing examples, , I know myself, I use.

At Padang a lot just sitting, you know, slightly under all those sort of main, main key guys. Now clearly if there's another 30 guys, like maybe with the same idea, then that secondary peak gets, gets packed. But, , there's these ways in which you can, you can again try option A, option B, um, but often, you know, just being underneath and, and allowing those other surfers to have that, that, , pecking order that they're trying to, they're trying to have, , you can, you can slot in underneath and, and still get great double ups or, you know, get one that's missed.

Or identifying that this guy's a local, that's an older guy that gets a lot of respect and lots of people are gonna pull back, but he's not got a good paddle. I've had so many waves just. Double checking those guys. And you know, they just don't quite get it when like, sometimes it does, it's like 30 guys have pulled back 'cause they're like, oh, it's, it's such and such, you know, we don't wanna push his section down, but you are just over enough that you are not gonna do that.

And you might be able to squeak in when 30 guys pull back and he just takes off too late or doesn't quite make the drop., So yeah, identifying those, those little gaps is key. , Back to etiquette though, with that personally, , I'm non-confrontational in my approach to surfing. Like, I've never enjoyed an argument.

I've never enjoyed trying to, , paddle up to someone and educate them on the environment unless they're being dangerous. , The worst environments I've found myself in my life have been of recent w with my own sons teaching them to surf. Uh, so being out in lineups like. Ulus when it's only two to three foot high tide and you just have all these uneducated surfers.

Uh, and I don't wanna put a label on level, I'm just uneducated on, on movement and just priority and, you know, just fairness, like, and safety, just, uh, you know, and so you're, you're literally out there with your son. And I've been in the most confrontational arguments of recent, purely when I feel obligated to try and tune someone about how dangerous they're being when not just my kids, but other kids are out in the lineup and, you know, they don't have the, the physical capability or skillset.

, Or knowledge yet to make the right decision. , They're learning, they're trying to get out the way, but maybe they're just not gonna be able to. And yeah, just seeing so much, um, carnage, clearly, uh, it's been really a, a, a challenging journey at times because, you know, you don't see all of that kind of stuff when you surf better breaks with higher level surfers.

, It, it's really gone to the dogs and I, you know, I grew up in that environment once upon a time, but it's so much worse now than it was in were kids. I feel for any learner, adult, you know, female long boarder trying to get amongst that and, and cash their wave, you know, it's just, uh, it's, it's a really toxic environment now.

Those sorts of mainstream breaks,, you know, you can go through a list of Malibu and snappers and, you know, all around the world, right? It's, it's just so many surfers now. So, , yeah. It's, it's, it's a, it's an open-ended question. Well,

Michael Frampton: I think it's on them. Let's use Ulus as an example. It's, it's a high performance wave that gets really good, but it's also somewhat accessible and that's its downfall.

Whereas you can, you can get away with, as long as you're physically able to walk down the stairs and you have the, uh, sometimes it's just pure ignorance to negotiate the keyhole. I've seen some close calls that I just, I just dumbfounded. I remember the first time I surfed Ulus when it was, you know, solid five foot and I was just, I couldn't believe how.

Novice of a surfer had managed to get out there and get in the way of everyone. And I was on edge going, I do not wanna touch the reef. I don't want get in anyone's way. And I'm like, my heart was racing. And there's, there's people out there, there's people whistling in the, that they've caught the, they've gone too far, they're getting dragged around onto the inside.

There's people on the cliff whistling at them. There's people walking up the stairs covered in blood 'cause they've hit the reef. And it's just like, why, why would you go to Atu? Like you, you're an idiot. You should be at a beach break with other learners and learning that. So I think it's a almost a failing some ways in surf culture not to educate these people.

And I get it, you know, your barley tourism is, they want the the people to go there. But at the same time it's like, man, my kid's been surfing for, for five years. He's ready to. Approach somewhere like inside Ulus. But you, you're in the way. You're literally, they, they are the unethical ones with no etiquette.

Yeah. Because they're in the wrong place. And the same thing, you've got surf coaches pushing everyone into Malibu. First point when you know the good surfers that have waited for an hour, they wanna do a couple of cutbacks on the inside. They want, don't want to give way to a soft top. You should be at zoomer learning.

So I think a lot of these, a lot of the stuff. It's coming from these adult learners who just think they're entitled and they don't have to go through the, the process in surfing. It's like, oh no, it's my turn. I've been waiting for a wave. Well, it's not, it's not quite that simple. And I think it comes back to what you said, which is, it's, it's a safety issue really.

You've got so many, yeah, so many amateur surfers getting in people's way. People have to not hit you and then they put themselves in a bad position to get cut on a reef maybe, or essentially you, you're gonna end up hurting yourself or you're a drain on the, on the health system. And it, it's, yeah, it's kind of a mess.

Matt Scorringe : I think it's just, you know, that ignorance is bliss for a lot of them, right? They just don't know what they don't know. And so making their way out at ulu's on high tide and not realizing the tide's on the way out, and they're gonna have reef to deal with on the way in, and, you know, they find themselves in these situations, but, , they're unaware and so.

There's, there's not any fear around it for them at that point. And they, they get out there and they're just all of a sudden in the way, and it has it, and you, you multiply that by 30 or 50 of those people in, in a situation and, and you've got a lot of, , yeah, you've got a lot of potential, you know, trouble that could present itself.

And, and carnage, I mean, and every, any given day, a lot of these spots, there's, there's a lot of, you know, incidences where people are getting hurt and hurt and cut and, um, some, you know, the amount of close calls, you know, would be, would be crazy. , I, I find that it's, you know, without labeling. The countries, there's certainly more high educated countries based on the environment that you grow up in.

Even if you're a late adult starter in a country like Australia that has just a super high surfing iq, uh, and knowledge, you're gonna get tuned really quickly. You're gonna be taught, you know, in in, in either a good way or a bad way, but you're gonna learn a little bit of the understanding of the, the way that, you know, etiquette and, and the world works.

And each break is different and each coastline and so on. But you're gonna have this kind of collectively base level, general theme through most of Australia where yeah, they, they're switched on. And I mean, the amount of unbelievable ocean knowledge wave readers that I've come to meet from Australia, you know, particularly like Hawaii for sure too, that goes without saying with their.

Of course, you know, the, the, the larger swell and the big waves and what they're exposed to, but I'm talking nuances and just, and crappy wound bond slop as well. You know, those eyes that they have for all of that and the gaps in crowds because they grow up in it and then they can do it in a way that, like cheeky maybe, but not completely disrespectful.

, And you know, obviously if you're out snapper, there's everything under the sun in terms of how people are doing it, but the best at doing it become, it becomes an art form of how they operate within a crowd with everyone from learner groms to learner adults, right through to elite, right? And everything in between.

So, , personally like I, I grew up on a, a very highly, um, localized break in New Zealand. Now, when I say localized, it wasn't. By fist. It was localized. It was by village. And so the takeoff zone was very tight. It's, uh, you know, like a, a long, uh, left hand sandbar for anyone listening. , And I know most of the best surfers in New Zealand just don't go surf it and still don't.

, And when they'll come through town and be like, come surf the bar, you know, and they'll be like, oh, we're just gonna go around to the beachy, like hate surfing out there. And. It was more because of the way it got locked down by the elders rather than, you know, um, a pack of younger tough guys sort of dominating it through force.

And so I learned really quick this kind of hierarchy system of respect and, and doing your due, like you had to pay your dues. You had to start down the point, you worked your way up and you know, you had to sit under your outs and you could pick up the double ups. But back then they were all riding like longer boards and weren't knifing double ups into the barrel.

So we grew up as that first generation wanting those waves and we actually were getting the better waves, but they were getting the taller ways that would kind of hit the bank and run. We were getting the like double up aka like tubes and they didn't realize we were on the better ones 'cause it was a generational change of equipment and so on.

But what we learned was, um, yeah, how to, how to work within that environment. How to work your way up. Um. A hundred percent I've, I paddle would've paddled past a lot of people in my time sitting down the point and, you know, that's on my mind. But when I get to the top, I'm not just trying to get the next wave and the next wave and the next wave.

It's like working your way in and waiting your turn. And um, you know, there's days we're all guilty as sins that it's good and, and you get a bit in rhythm and greedy and, and you know, you're kind of aware of you, you, you've, you're getting a few too many. But like at the end of the day, uh, there is a like real clear understanding out there.

And I know a lot of people don't like that, that aren't from there, but what I think they don't like about it is there's not actually anyone kind of telling anyone to, you know, if off or to like get down to point or like just being like, you know, obviously aggressive assholes. I mean, it can happen, can happen.

But most of the time, and what's more frustrating is just this kind of like, yeah, there, there's this kind of collective creating,. An environment that has to be respected. And so what I kind of gleaned from that with my travels was identifying that in other locations and knowing when like, oh, there's a clear and obvious like village of people here that have got a system.

And identifying that and trying to fit into that system. And , I know a lot of your guests have said like, being a good surfer helps like that, that goes without saying. Like, if you can get into the peak eventually and, and get a good wave and you knife it and you get spat out down the line and you do a good turn, , it helps, like, it helps people give you respect.

If you go over the falls three times, you're done right one time, you're probably done. So unfortunately, for those that are listening that are, , maybe not at a, a higher level and they're at a lower level, like you have to really look yourself in the mirror and, and be honest with yourself whether you can surf that way from the top.

And if you've got the skill set to do so and. I'm not saying that doesn't mean you shouldn't go have the right as a human being to go up there and try, but if you don't make it once or twice like you will, you will be done. You know? And that's, I think, fair enough in any sport. Like you only get so many shots at something before, okay.

You know, , you're not, you're not achieving this ultimate goal here of, you know, scoring the goal for, for a basketball team. Like, we're gonna sub you off, you know? And so there is just an understanding of where you might fit into that system. . And just to kind of wrap up my point, I also go to breaks where I can see there is no obvious system and it is a free for all and there is no hierarchy, you know, sort of village kind of operation going on here.

And then it's like, okay, cool, like now we can kind of play a little bit more, , you know, hungrier game here, but still like, where can I slot in and not be an absolute prick? , But you know what, I'm not going to just keep leading these guys pedal past me either. Like I'm gonna play the game. Um, and so, I dunno, I feel like, you know, a lot of my friends that grew up on this wave, we've, we developed an art to particularly a couple of my mates.

They're just so good at getting waves in any lineup, like the most crowded lineups that. Are the exception of a wave like chop or pipeline or, you know, super heavy waves of constant with a clear and obvious gnarly local system. , But all the free for all waves around the world, you know, that just have been kind of overrun by tourism and yeah.

And then I see other really good surfers from different environments have grown up that really struggle 'cause they just had like a more simple, less complex environment to,

Michael Frampton: to learn that in.

Mm.

Yeah. It's a big subject. And that will come, I mean, what you just mentioned there, that comes down to reading, like, like you sitting in a little bit from the pack to catch the double up, the double ups at Padang, you can only do that because if you see a set coming for them, you're gonna have to see it either before them or at the same time as them in order to paddle outta their way.

Right. Mm. In order to order to go back to get the double ups on the inside. They don't, and they don't care if you're getting those waves as long as you stay out of their way, but you get in their way, your little game is over. So you have to be an expert at reading and predicting waves in order to do that.

Therefore, you are a better surfer. So you are moving, I think surf lineups, it is a hierarchy of competence. There is no way around that. There's, I agree. Each surf break has its own, uh, representation of eth uh, of, um, etiquette, let's say at different times of the day, different swells. And when we are entering the water, we cannot, as surfers, we cannot expect there to be one rule of etiquette for every surf break in the world.

It's ridiculous. Yeah. If you, if you go surfing and you feel like everyone else in the water has no etiquette, you are the one in the wrong place. You are out. Go, go surf somewhere else. Go and practice what you're doing somewhere else. Jump on a plane. There are plenty of learner friendly areas in the world now where you can go and take turns and be on soft tops and catch gentle waves.

There's, there's plenty of places to go and learn and practice and, and get your reps in and surfing and that way I think it's ridiculous to go out to ATU and expect to people to be, to have etiquette and, and, and to give you your turn. It's, it is, it is crazy. So it comes back to that whole awareness thing, right?

Not only are you good surfers, not only if you wanna travel, especially, not only do you have to be good at reading the ocean and waves and stuff, you have to be good at reading the crowd and the surf culture of the local environ. A hundred percent. I

Matt Scorringe : think that's a huge piece. Yeah. And just to kind of elaborate on, just as an example, Pang, because I mean, pang's such a perfect wave.

I mean, there's a lot of people that might be listening and think, oh, well that's a very. Common plan B. , I mean, I've had sessions out there. I've sat out there for two hours and had to paddle in and not caught away, you know, so I'm not saying it always works. And I've had sessions where it's, um, being only a handful of locals and maybe a couple of them I know well, and they're like, oh, go this one man, you know, and you, you're up, you, you, you go, you go.

And then I've had times where they've literally paddled past me 15 times and not looked you in the eye. 'cause they don't want to acknowledge you and then have to maybe think about giving you a wave when it's really busy. They're like, right, it's busy, it's pumping panang, I'm locking in with the rest of the local boys.

It's our turn. And you just gotta sit back and respect that. You know, like it's, it's the way it is. Like their waves have been overrun by tourists and it's, it's one of those pumping days and there's. There's 30 guys like me with the same level and, and idea, and then there's 30 guys underneath me or girls with a, a different idea and a different level.

And, and there's all that, you know, and so you've got to, yeah, you've gotta just kind of understand that. Um, and I know I do it, like I, I know when I surf sun breaks that I know it's gonna be, uh, it's gonna be a real game that I'm playing the whole session. I actually don't like going surfing with friends out there.

You know, I like to just strike a couple of waves around Bali. , Sorry, Indo now on my own. Because if I go with even just two mates, you know, I'm not gonna go with a huge pack. I have to consider them in my game of respect. Like if I do my thing and I know they haven't had one for a while. Like my nature is to be like, of course I'm gonna be like, go, go, go.

You know, I'm not, , you know, I can't kind of, at the end of the day be that kind of dog eat dog, but then that mucks you up and they're kind of like, there's three guys between you and them and you've kind, you kind of like, it becomes this thing where like it's actually a solo pursuit is easier in an environment that it's not your environment like you are, you're in someone else's environment or one of those free for all waves and like there are waves around, , the world that has no.

Massive true. Like it's, let's say local village law, but there's certainly the couple of locals, handful locals. Um, there's certainly those that have traveled there since 1970 something and camp there all the time. So there's still some system, you know, even though there's maybe no true locals or there's no true, you're an expat, you, how can you call yourself a local?

Well, you know, that person has surfed there for 30 years and knows everyone by name has done this time, like respect due. You know? So I like to find out about those stories and get to know people and, and see where people slot in to, , a break if I have enough time. Sometimes you're just passing through for a surf and you've got one surf and you've just gotta try and make sense of it a a little faster.

, But yeah, I think too many people just don't spend enough time trying to understand what the environment they're really operating in and just get caught up in the pure like. You are paddling past me. It's my turn. I'm deepest to the peak. All these kind of top level rules of surfing that don't apply at every break, specifically based on the hierarchy of level as well.

Yeah,

Michael Frampton: yeah, I totally agree. I think they do, they obviously do apply when you think, when you see surfing as a sport and in competition there's priority rules and stuff. But which segue into is surfing an art or a sport. I think if you approach it as more of an art, it gives you a lot more leeway. You should of break the rules of sport and there's more nuance to, to read the ocean and, and surf breaks as more and like, like you said before is I want you're mentioning uh, some of your friends that catch waves.

They're so good at it. It's like an art form. Um, and I know we did touch on this question way back in, uh, episode five back in 2015, uh, 'cause of the name of your website and businesses, the Art of Surfing. But I'm gonna. Come back to you. I've been talk, been talking about this question a bit with recently, again, sort of revisiting it.

So I'm gonna ask you again. Is surfing an art or a sport? Mm-hmm.

Matt Scorringe : Well, for me it's 100% an art. Like that goes without saying. I mean, the whole reason I did name the business the art of surfing because was because that, that's, you know, just at the core of it, it's an art form and it's an art form that has been turned into a sport for those that want to play it in a sport format.

That's how I see it. And so, you know, we're, we're, we're grabbing something and we're going, this art form's beautiful. You know, like, what a cool thing. Like look how he does it. Look how she does it, look how different she's doing it to him. , But look, why don't we. Create some parameters here and see if we can create some sort of sport.

Right. And you know, it, it's evolved and we all love the sport. Like, you know, groms love to compete. I've loved to compete. I love to watch competition. I love to follow the WSL. I love the idea of having a world champion. I, you know, we, we, we want to create some form of sport within it that we can all be proud to be a part of and follow.

, But at the core of what you're doing, it's art. At the core of riding a wave, there's no more pure art form. And I have a little bit of a tagline with my business and it's, it's basically like the symbols, you know, art and science. And so my coaching philosophy is to blend the art and the science together and deliver it to my clients in a digestible way that they can understand it and they can, they can put it into practice.

Because if you are. Not a court, uh, a, you know, born surfer in the ocean and you have, you know, natural ocean knowledge and you grew up on your boogie board and your surfboard, and you've just got this feel for the ocean. If you're, if you're foreign to the environment, it can, it can look like reading Chinese when you're English, right?

It's, it's such a different science that your mind starts to melt. Like this mathematical equation is just like, I can't get it. But if you break this huge equation down into bite-size pieces and go, well, if we start here and just here is really one plus three, so what's that equal? Okay, cool. So you get that.

Now we're gonna go up into this level. You can really start to take them on that journey of understanding the art and the science of it. , And you're almost, what I like to say to a lot of clients is when you do that, you are maybe focusing on the science bits a bit like this technique and this kind of like strategy.

But what you're teaching them on a bigger scale is the art form. And when they kind of zoom out, you've kind of like the same paint by numbers. You sort of got them painting the ones and then the twos, and then the threes, and then they kind of zoom out once they're up to the tens and they're like, whoa, look at this.

Look at this picture of 'em drawing. You know, it's, this is cool. Like, I didn't even realize I was putting this piece of art together. And you show them a clip, you know, one day that kind of shows them that like, Hey, look, you've just positioned yourself so well here. You've, you've turned, you've cooked, your pop-up was smooth.

Youve got speed off the mark, you've flowed to your marker, you know, you compressed, you leaned that bottom turn your extension and your timing was great. You threw your arms and your framework really, really well. And you got your kicking your pedal into that snap. Like you just combined all of that into this one moment.

You know, and for many surfers, that's, that's not that easy, you know? . At all. And you know, when you get caught up in coaching a lot of talented kids and juniors, you forget. You forget that side of the sport. And, , well, that side of the art Yeah, because it's so easy to say sport, right? It rolls off your tongue.

But, , I think those clients I'm teaching in art and my more high performance kids, I'm teaching the sport, I'm teaching strategy and drills and pressure, you know, scenarios, mindset, confidence, you know, that's all sporting language, right. That you can, you can transition between any sport. , Yeah. Whereas I think our art form of surfing is a different, , killer fish when you talk to how to coach it.

Michael Frampton: Yeah, that's a good analogy. Yeah. The, the breaking it down, breaking the art of surfing into a science, like paint by numbers into little mm. Into little blocks. And is that what you're specializing in doing with your remote coaching? You tell us about that.

Matt Scorringe : Yeah, absolutely. The, the remote coaching,, I, I guess I was thinking like, how can I be more impactful on a longer term, , journey for my clients, right?

Rather than coming on a camp or a course or, or a few in-person sessions here or there. Like, how can I actually do what I just explained, like kind of create this program for them that will step them through painting, painting the numbers, and then being able to zoom out in six months time, a year's time and, and be like, you know, way ahead of their surfing curve than they ever thought.

And so, you know, with the evolution of technology, , I decided to launch my remote coaching packages. So with that on a simple top, you know, level, they submit footage to me regularly. I do their assessments, I put together their training programs. I like to compare it a little bit. For those that are listening to a simple, you know, remote, um, PT trainer, because it seems to kind of just connect, like, oh, I could see how that could work then where you are training in a different gym, but you're checking in with your trainer over the other side of the country or other side of the world.

You're sending them videos, highlighting your, your reps, your routines, they're micro, um, managing that. They're, you know, adjusting those, those reps, those weights. , And you don't really see it until you see it. And a year later, six months later, you are, you're a lot stronger, you're a lot further, you're a lot more mobile because of the work and the personalization they're putting into your program.

And you can't do that without assessment. You can't just create a one stop course for everyone. Like that just does not work. And I just don't believe in that stuff. Um, do they help understand the base layer of knowledge? Absolutely. But they're never gonna actually truly get you from where you are to where you want to be.

And so I really moved away. From one-off remote, like, you know, video analysis, , purchases. I only work with people a minimum of three months and most people sign up for my six month or a year just to, you know, see those results. Or they might do three and then they just, they just stay. , So yeah, that's how that works.

And it is designed purely around that whole combination of the art and the science, and then being able to zoom out and actually see true results, , whether you are a performance junior surfer, wanting to go from like, I'm a good surfer, but I want to be progressive and I want to be dynamic and I need to, I need to lift my score lines.

We, we can take you on that journey. We're gonna go more into the competition sports side there, , or your. A 40-year-old woman that's living in El Salvador who I, you know, as a real example of someone I coach and she's started, decided to ride a shortboard after a longboard her whole life. , And we've got her doing snaps in the pocket and, you know, she had a good base layer, but she never knew how to turn properly.

And yeah, it's been a fun journey, , I really enjoy my, my remote coaching. And the best thing about it is the accountability. People have to submit footage and so they go away and they work really hard because they know they have to send map footage and they wanna, they wanna show results.

And so just like if you're gonna send a photo to your, um, PT three months later, you don't wanna send the one of you looking less fit than when you started with 'em or her. So it's kinda thinking.

Michael Frampton: Yeah, no, that's a good analogy too. 'cause when it comes to training in the gym and or changing your diet or whatever, you need consistency over at least three months to see any sort of change and Absolutely.

It's the same with surfing as you're surfing, even more so, I mean, gosh, you could be, you could almost become an expert in the gym in two or three years. It's gonna take you more like, , 22 or 23 years in surfing. It's, you gotta have the long, the long game when it comes to surfing, unless you're 10 years old and you're starting now made a rubber.

Yeah. Okay, cool. So how can people learn more about, uh, more about your remote coaching?

Matt Scorringe : Yeah. Um, best place to find me would be on Instagram, the Art of Surfing and the art of surfing.com. So yeah, if you head there, there's , a good page about the remote coaching. There's a page about our online academy membership, which is more of a entry level too.

, The remote coaching where there's more tutorials and um, video content, but also with the year membership, people get a Teos annual review and that is one version of the programming I do. And then they get to get a taster and if they, you know, want to, you know, be more committed to their, their surfing than progression, they can up, up, up, um, grade to the remote coaching package as well.

Michael Frampton: Okay, awesome. So that's the art of surfing.co nz. There will be links to that in the show notes, and if you're on Instagram, it's the same, same handle. And also, so let me ask you, it's for people listening in, uh, America and Europe, it's coming into winter season, so there will be intermediate surfers listening that will be tempted to maybe step outside their comfort zone and surf some slightly bigger waves.

, Do you have any tips for those, those people entering this season over there?

Matt Scorringe : My, my main tip for winter surfing in general is, so when you look at your mindset to performance, regardless of your level, there's certain pillars that you want to strengthen and lean into and spend time in. One of those pillars is form and like focusing on correct form, but with, , a more sort of slower pace to it.

So we, we otherwise call that focusing on rhythm, right? Like when we build rhythm and we try and build flow, , that can look really beautifully and done with minimal effort, minimal, like major range of movements in our, in our body. So think of John. John, like, or Occy, like you're saying. So winter you're generally.

Want to maybe look at writing a slightly high volume board. , You might want to play around if you're an intermediate level surfer with, you know, those mid lengths that you might have started to also explore with, and you're gonna be wearing lots more rubber. So I move my clients away from the fast twitch, , dynamic focus, , kind of coaching focuses that we might have in warmer water or in summer months, and more on the range of movement, but done not at a rushed pace.

So to say that was something tangible to work on. It might be working on like, rather than off the mark speed and, and pump, pump, pump actually working on your timing of your first bottom turn and just being deep with your glide. And so less effort on the, the speed to get to that moment. But when you are there.

You know, compress and lean and see how low you can get, how much you can touch, and then really extend up as you draw up the wave towards that top turn and isolate that. Just be okay with that being what you are working on and less worried about the overall outcome of this wave being three or four to the beach or putting together this perfect ride because we move slower in the colder water, you know, we're stiffer, the boards are, you know, the wits make you heavier.

So bit of volume, bit of flow, bit of focus on some isolated, um, range of movement in some areas. And you know, obviously if you've got a coach you're working with that can tell you what those areas are. Great. But just from a generalized point of view, that's a theme I, uh, I kind of lean into with my clients that are in their winter months because you're also not usually catching as much waves in those winter months.

Just typically not surfing as much. Your reps are down your wave count, you know, your ride time. So rather than trying to, you know. Be all over the show with it. Just simplify, build some flow. Yeah.

Michael Frampton: Range of movement. Yeah. That's actually good advice for all levels of surfers. 'cause if you're in summer mode and you enter that summer frantic way of surfing into a powerful wave, you're gonna, it doesn't, doesn't really work.

Does it? Yeah, totally. The irony is for those who haven't really stepped into winter waves, the intermediate surfers, when the bigger the wave is, the more time you actually have. Now it's scarier. So sometimes it feels like you have less time, but if you're comfortable in the ocean on bigger waves, you, you going a bit faster, but you actually have more time.

'cause it takes longer to drop down. So you need more control and less, less, less fast twitch. Um, and then of course you've got, we've got the Southern Hemisphere listeners and we're coming into summer. Any advice for those coming into summer?

Matt Scorringe : Yeah, look at the moment I've, I've really enjoyed with my remote coaching working on my client's framework and the entry phase.

So what that means is when you are entering your top turn, I call that the, the, the entry phase. So basically your bottom turn and your approach. Um, you have your action phase, which is whatever maneuver you're trying to do off the top. And then you have your exit phase when you're sort of like obviously trying to complete it and ride out.

And so with summer, and then we can just zoom out and say surfing in general, like you're gonna usually get your reps up in the summer, you're gonna be hopefully surfing in boardies and, and light of we ease and you're gonna be more quick kind of with those reaction times. So you start to get erratic and if your movements are incorrect and erratic, you double down on negative results with your surfing right?

And you're actually creating more bad habits, uh, and you start to sometimes get worse. And you're surfing more, but you're getting worse. And so the frustration comes in. So what I like to get people really focusing on as they kind of make that transition is the framework, particularly of their arms. So again, like how to do that is something that you'd have to, you know, be coached by me to do or someone that you work with.

But getting your arm set, getting your, your, your extension, your framework of the arm set so that when you are doing your movement patterns, you're in the action phase, you're coming from a, a, a good foundation. So, um, a good analogy is golf. Like, think about walking up to hit a ball. , And you don't really address the ball very well.

You just sort of like, get up there, set your feet, look, look down at the pen and just swung away. Most of the time for an everyday golfer that that swing's gonna be pretty bad and the ball's gonna not go where you want it to go, and you might get a few that go kind of good and, and, and the majority of that won't.

I know that's certainly how it is for me. Um, and the difference is if you were to go up, you address ball properly, you go through your routine, you get your framework set, you kind of have your, your, your markers that your coach has given you that you gotta make sure of, and then you breathe into that moment and, and you go, go for the swing.

You're, you're generally gonna find that you have a much better consistent swing. So the beauty of golf is you can take your time and you can address that as long as you need. With surfing, you don't have that luxury. You're gonna be coming off your bottom turn and boom, you're at the top. So to implement the right framework is much harder, therefore more important.

And yeah, okay. It might be trickier to actually do, but if you can get your arm set and you can get a high back arm and you can activate your leading arm so that you have the arms ready for leverage and rotation or twist or throw, , you're generally gonna just throw, twist or rotate in a much better form, and therefore your surfing will be better, less erratic, and you know, you won't have that frustration that follows.

So yeah, what does that look like? Well, you know, that's something that you, you need to get some tips on if you're, if you're not sure. But ultimately, , just think getting your arm set to be utilized. A lot of people just don't lift them. They're just underneath their arm, their, , shoulder height through all their surfing.

, There's no over. The shoulder throw, it's all under the shoulder throw. So I think, , a lot of backstroke swings rather than freestyle swings. Mm. So what does that do? When you go into a Rio or snap and you're doing a backstroke swing, you are actually pulling your whole body momentum back over your heels to sit back down.

And a lot of surfers do that with their finishing turns or top turns. Uh, if you can get that over shoulder throw, freestyle throw, uh, you're going to project a forward momentum, uh, a forward cycle and circle that pulls you over your toes, helps you rotate and twist out towards the beach through the turn.

Um, so those little things make a huge knock on effect. Um. You know, and, and you're surfing and summer is a good time to, to get that right because, you know, you're, you're generally just gonna be, hopefully surfing a lot more, more reps, more moments. Yeah. And, and maybe a little bit more lively with your approach.

Michael Frampton: Mm, yeah. That's a, that's a nice detailed tip there. Yeah. I think a lot of, even a lot of surf coaches would miss that, the difference in an arm swing. 'cause the reverse under the, under the shoulder, that's a react. That's a fear thing. That's a pullback. It's my god. Yeah. It's reactive, fear based. Yeah. And you can over, you can override that and actually correct the fear at the same time, or you can correct the fear and sometimes the movement is corrected.

And of course, if you've got a good coach, you're doing both. So, um, those that we'll find out more about next. Well, you know,

Matt Scorringe : con confidence is. Confidence is not a feeling. It's the result of actions, right? You get confident based on the result of repetitive actions you've done that make you not fear that moment, fear that situation, fear that movement.

So the action phase creates confidence and you nailed it. Like I use reactive versus proactive surfing as a 1 0 1 explanation for my clients. Like, here's proactive surfing from you. And then as you transition here, this is all reactive. So we'll go back to your last proactive moment, okay? That's where we now look to implement the, the next phase in a proactive manner.

So they may have a good takeoff, they may have a good bottom turn, but from their approach into their action phase, it's all reactive. Well, that, that's where you've gotta start. You can't, you can't talk about their finishing phase yet. Like they've gotta get this right before. You know, paint by numbers though.

Michael Frampton: Yes. Yes. Step by step. Well, those who are listening, who are inspired to find out more, go to the art of surfing.co nz. And, uh, if you're really serious about changing a surfing, you gotta, you gotta have some commitment. It's gonna take minimum three months of consistent action. And, uh, I can tell you from experience, I've been through a phase of my life where I spend a lot of time, effort, and money on improving my surfing.

And I certainly do not regret it because. It's not something you have to do for years and years and years. Even if you only did one year of that, you've changed the way you surf forever. , It's, it's amazing what I blew my own mind of what I achieved within a year. Uh, I, you know, achieved my goals, you know, way earlier and, and far beyond what I thought was possible and when I focused on my surfing.

So I encourage those out there just to just get it done, get some coaching done. It's painful, watching yourself surf, et cetera, but it's the only way forward. Mm-hmm. And Matt's one of the best in the business. So thank you for tuning in. Uh, you can also go back to episode five and episode 79, I think it was.

I'll put links to that, the other two interviews with Matt in the show notes if you want to hear more from Matt's philosophy and of course his backstory in the original, uh, episode. So Matt, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Matt Scorringe : Cheers, Mike. Likewise, stoked to be back on the pod. And, .

Thanks everyone for listening. Hope you guys got some good takeaways and, and enjoyed, , enjoyed the conversation.

The Surf Mastery Podcast:

For the passionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced

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129 Lineup Strategy, Surfing Technique and Reading the Ocean with Surf Coach Matt Scorringe

Podcast - SURF MASTERY

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What if the key to unlocking your best surfing isn’t how you ride a wave - but how you read the ocean before you even paddle for it?

Discover the missing piece in most surf coaching: how reading the ocean gives you faster decision-making, greater confidence, and better waves.
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Explore how treating the ocean like a playground—not a proving ground - can unlock more joy, progression, and long-term success in your surfing journey.