Something fundamental is broken in how we approach leadership when only 19% of employees trust their company's leadership and engagement hovers around 20-30%. Sébastien Page, Chief Investment Officer at T. Rowe Price and author of The Psychology of Leadership, brings 25 years of money management experience and deep psychological research to explain why our narrow focus on goal achievement might actually be killing both performance and engagement.

Drawing from sports psychology, Sébastien introduces the critical distinction between ego mindset (focused on KPIs, rankings, and external validation) and mastery mindset (focused on improvement for its own sake). While organizations chase sales targets and quarterly metrics, they miss what actually drives engagement: the excitement of getting better at how we do things, whether that's improving research processes or simply running better meetings.

The conversation takes a powerful turn when Sébastien shares his personal encounter with goal-induced blindness. His own near-death experience serves as a stark warning about what happens when we pursue goals at any cost. He shares the example that Everest climbers have a 4% chance of dying—a statistic that should make us question our own "summit or die" mentality in business.

We dive deep into the lessons in Sébastien’s book, including why leaders need to master being disagreeable about 10% of the time—picking battles that matter while avoiding both excessive agreeableness and tyrannical behavior. His "10% rule" offers a practical framework for leaders struggling to balance consensus-building with decisive action.

Sébastien and I discuss personality traits that predict leadership success, particularly openness to experience—using an interesting spectrum of Jim Morrison (maximum openness) to the Pope (maximum tradition). The key insight: effective leaders need both the innovation that comes from openness and the discipline that comes from structure.

Throughout, Sébastien challenges conventional wisdom, arguing that our KPI obsession creates ego-driven cultures where people optimize for metrics rather than mastery. His research-backed approach offers a path forward for leaders who want to build organizations where people are genuinely engaged, not just hitting numbers.

Resources & Links Mentioned

• The Psychology of Leadership by Sébastien Page
• NSFW - A good manager’s guide to better feeling work in a toxic culture by me
• Sébastien Page - business profile on LinkedIn
• Sébastien’s Instagram for his book