Public Power Underground is more than a discussion about public ownership of electric infrastructure, the infotaining episodes cover the energy enthusiast trifecta of electrification, markets, and people. The hosts interview industry experts on a broad range of energy industry and energy-industry-adjacent topics at the nexus of electric utilities and the energy transition. The podcast doesn’t take itself too seriously and frequently plays energy inspired games like “energy enthusiasm distill ...
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Paul Dockery Podcasts

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Headliners: Crystal Ball, Mark Nelson, and Emeka Anyanwu @ Gridliance Transmission Symposium
47:31
47:31
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47:31In a LIVE! recording at GridLiance’s 2024 Transmission Symposium, Crystal Ball hosts a competition between Mark Nelson and Emeka Anyanwu to determine the most creative prognosticator of energy headlines for 2025. The episode is un-edited and available on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. A video recording is also available …
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Afterparty: Frontlining Energy Justice
1:08:19
1:08:19
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1:08:19[recorded August 28, 2024] Tony Reames and Salma Elmallah discuss their work and research on energy justice in a special episode recorded after the season and series finale. In a much anticipated episode recorded on August 28, 2024, Dr. Tony Reames and Dr. Salma Elmallah join Paul Dockery and Dr. Ahlmahz Negash to discuss their paper on frontlining…
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Eleventy-first episode & Energy System Analogy World Cup Championship
1:30:50
1:30:50
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1:30:50A party of special significance to celebrate the eleventy-first and final episode with an energy system analogy world cup championship tournament, celebrity guests, and stump speeches Friends-of-the-Underground participated in a special, in-person recording of the eleventy-first and final episode of Public Power Underground celebrating our communit…
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Energy Justice with Prof. Erin Baker
1:38:54
1:38:54
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1:38:54A discussion of the building blocks of a just energy transition with Professor Erin Baker, the Faculty Director of the Energy Transition Institute at UMass Amherst. Professor Erin Baker visited with Ahlmahz Negash and Paul Dockery in-person at the office of the Pacific Northwest Utility Conference Committee (PNUCC) about energy justice, meaningful …
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Commissioner Ann Rendahl & the Eras of the Electric Sector
1:27:17
1:27:17
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1:27:17The electric sector is evolving like the eras of Taylor Swift; at least that's the hypothesis that Commissioner Ann Rendahl and Gen-Z-Swiftie Scholar, Sherry Zuo, consider in a special episode. Commissioner Ann Rendahl and Sherry Zuo join hosts Paul Dockery and Crystal Ball to consider how the electric sector is evolving like the eras of Taylor Swi…
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BONUS: Unprecedented Partnerships for Expanding Electricity Transmission in the West
1:07:09
1:07:09
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1:07:09a special, bonus episode recorded at the Western Power Pool with celebrity guests Sarah Edmonds, Bob Rowe and Debra Smith Crystal Ball and Matthew Schroettnig host a conversation with Sarah Edmonds, Bob Rowe and Debra Smith about their “Theory of Change” for expanding high voltage, long distance transmission in the West. You can find the podcast on…
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Big Synchronous Generators, Popular Fallacies, and Unpopular Opinions
1:38:22
1:38:22
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1:38:22A trip to the Skagit River Hydroelectric Project to talk about power system inertia with Seattle City Light operators, plus a discussion of popular fallacies and unpopular opinions with the hosts. To experience the visceral sounds and sights of big synchronous generation, an interview with Mike Haynes, Will Andersen, and Brandt March was recorded i…
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Ben Serrurier & the Lighting Design Lab
1:36:29
1:36:29
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1:36:29Ben Serrurier returns to Public Power Underground to share some maybe-good-maybe-bad-but-definitely-not-thought-out ideas with Ahlmahz Negash, Paul Dockery, and Farhad Billimoria in a returning segment, Half-Baked Ideas. Then Irina Rasputnis, Madeline Kostic, and Eric Strandberg from the Seattle City Light’s Lighting Design Lab sit down to talk wit…
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Lynne Kiesling, Congestible Public Goods, and Common Pool Resources
1:50:27
1:50:27
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1:50:27A discussion about public goods and what classifying services as common pool resources, congestible public goods, or club goods means for grid planning and market design. Lynne Kiesling joins Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery to discuss the classification system used in economics to distinguish public goods from pr…
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Ari Peskoe Ranks Governance, Footprint, and Market Design
1:39:04
1:39:04
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1:39:04Ari Peskoe describes himself as an electric utility critic and has advice for electric utility enthusiasts. Ari Peskoe is the Director of the Electricity Law Initiative at the Harvard Law School Environmental and Energy Law Program and a prolific writer about regulation of the U.S. power sector on issues ranging from constitutional challenges to st…
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Rich Glick initiated the proceedings that led to Order 1920 as Chair of FERC, he returns to Public Power Underground with experts Prof. Jacob Mays and Pamela Quinlan to reflect on its adoption -------------------- Paul Dockery and Crystal Ball bring their curiosity to an in-depth discussion of transmission planning, transmission investment, and tra…
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Resource Adequacy, Tail Risk, and Institutional Capability
1:14:00
1:14:00
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1:14:00Conleigh, Farhad, Ahlmahz, and Paul debrief on coverage of FERC Order 1920 then discuss resource adequacy, hedging tail risk, and preview business capability models. Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, and Farhad Billimoria scan news stories after FERC’s release of Order 1920, then Conleigh Byers explains Resource adequacy, and Farhad Billimoria explai…
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Apoorv Bhargava discusses his work at WeaveGrid optimizing electric vehicle charging within distribution systems. The interview is wrapped by context and insights from the regular hosts: Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share w…
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What it means for America's power grid w/ Katherine Blunt
1:19:35
1:19:35
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1:19:35Katherine Blunt joins Crystal Ball and Paul Dockery to discuss her reporting at the Wall Street Journal on the energy industry and her book, California Burning: The Fall of Pacific Gas and Electric--and What It Means for America's Power Grid. Matthew Schroettnig joins Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery for the rest of the episode t…
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Dr. Kyri Baker, an assistant professor of engineering at the University of Colorado, makes a return visit to discuss the use of artificial intelligence for power grid optimization. Plus, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, Ahlmahz Negash, and Paul Dockery wrap the interview with an explanation of AI and all its acronyms. You can find the podcast on …
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BONUS: Eras of the Electric Sector (Taylor's Version)
42:53
42:53
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42:53Katherine Blunt, author of California Burning, joins Crystal Ball and Paul Dockery to discuss the eras of the electric sector (Taylor's Version). To celebrate Taylor Swift’s April 19th release of The Tortured Poets Department (and Tortured Poets Department: The Anthology), Katherine Blunt, Crystal Ball, and Paul Dockery recorded a special, bonus, e…
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exploration of approaches to distribution systems from microcontrollers and software to MOAR HARDWARE Distribution infrastructure, microcontrollers in everything, hardware vs software solutions, and prices-to-devices get covered in a distribution systems episode with Ahlmahz Negash, Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, and Paul Dockery featuring an i…
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The Transmission Expansion Era w/ John Hairston
1:21:35
1:21:35
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1:21:35John Hairston returns to discuss what BPA is doing to navigate an era of transmission expansion for the grid. John Hairston, the CEO and Administrator of the Bonneville Power Administration, shares his enthusiasm for transmission and people in an interview with Paul Dockery and Crystal Ball. The interview is wrapped in informative discussion on ene…
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Grand Analogies of the Energy System
1:18:58
1:18:58
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1:18:58Conleigh, Farhad, Ahlmahz, and Paul start season six with a discussion of ways to understand the energy system and analogies that can be used to explore its complications Conleigh Byers, Farhad Billimoria, Ahlmahz Negash, and Paul Dockery discuss various ways of understanding the energy system in the Season 6 Premiere of Public Power Underground. T…
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The next season of Public Power Underground is coming soon with a new format and new regular hosts. Subscribe to make sure you don't miss the season premiere! After a short break, Public Power Underground is coming back for its sixth season of energy enthusiasm! This season Paul Dockery and Ahlmahz Negash will be joined by world-renowned energy res…
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Office Hours w/ Professor Jacob Mays
1:26:08
1:26:08
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1:26:08“This paper argues for the centrality of real-time markets, which are cleared sequentially with a single binding interval.” Prof. Dr. Jacob Mays and Paul Dockery have an in-depth discussion in Hollister Hall at Cornell University about Prof. Mays recently released working paper on Sequential Pricing of Electricity. The discussion is only available …
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Inspired by the YouTube series *Hot Ones*, Whitney Muse (Senior Policy Advisor in the White House Office of Clean Energy Innovation and Implementation), Mark Lauby (Senior Vice President and Chief Engineer at North American Electric Reliability Corporation), and Jordan White (Executive Director, Development at GridLiance) join co-hosts Paul and Cry…
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Electrification is Happening w/ Steve Pantano and Danielle Walker
1:16:14
1:16:14
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1:16:14Steve Pantano from Rewiring America and Danielle Walker from the Department of Energy’s Office of State and Community Energy Programs join Ahlmahz Negash, PhD and Paul Dockery for a discussion of electrification. The crews discuss the Inflation Reduction Act’s Home Energy Rebates, Rewiring America’s IRA Savings Calculator, best practices in buildin…
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*buzzed history* with Mark Ohrenschall, Shauna McReynolds and Crystal Ball
1:24:34
1:24:34
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1:24:34three energy historians join public power underground for an infotaining and slightly irreverent discussion of the major milestones for the electric industry in the northwest -------------------- Mark Ohrenschall, Shauna McReynolds and Crystal Ball join and Paul Dockery to discuss the history of the electric industry in the Northwest from acronyms …
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Lorenzo Kristov and Josh Keeling on Maximizing DER Deployment
1:13:56
1:13:56
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1:13:56Lorenzo Kristov and Josh Keeling join Ahlmahz and Paul to talk about maximizing the deployment of distributed energy resources but first we make them say something nice about electric utilities Lorenzo Kristov and Josh Keeling join Ahlmahz Negash, PhD and Paul Dockery for a discussion of FERC 2222, maximizing the distribution-level customer value o…
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Best Practices in Power Planning w/ Ric O'Connell and Anna Sommer
1:13:37
1:13:37
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1:13:37Ric O’Connell and Anna Sommers join Ahlmahz Negash, PhD and Paul Dockery for a deep dive into power planning best practices including planning for extremes, open source models, and best in class computational techniques. You can find the podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share with friends that are electric utili…
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BONUS: 3Ps of transmission in the West
1:15:13
1:15:13
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1:15:13Transmission experts talk about horror stories from permitting Idaho Power's Boardman to Hemmingway transmission line and react to a regional planning organization scorecard -------------------- Adam Richins, Christina Hayes, and Pam Sporborg join Paul Dockery at Paddy’s Bar & Grill for an after-hour conversation about transmission in the West. The…
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Utility Maximization, Community Input, and Solarpunk Stories with Prof. Dr. Destenie Nock
1:29:29
1:29:29
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1:29:29Prof. Dr. Destenie Nock joins Dr. Ahlmahz Negash and Paul Dockery for a conversation about what the grid of the future *should* look like. The discussion dives deep into (1) the energy equity gap, (2) a methodology for finding the optimal expansion of a power system under the objective of maximizing social benefit, (3) the Gini coefficient, and (4)…
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Debra Smith hosts Randy Hardy, Bill Drummond and Steve Wright
1:07:45
1:07:45
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1:07:45Debra Smith, Randy Hardy, Bill Drummond, and Steve Wright recorded an info-taining conversation live on-stage at NWPPA’s 83rd Annual Conference and Membership Meeting in Anchorage, Alaska. Debra hosts the three former Administrators of the Bonneville Power Administration who continue to engage in energy policy. The discussion ranges from greatest r…
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Risk perspectives; from strategy to execution with Kevin Nordt and Paul Dietz
1:29:33
1:29:33
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1:29:33We discuss how utility risk management is a lot like dungeons and dragons: creatively managing risk by leveraging strengths to maximize the likelihood of beneficial outcomes when solving problems. Kevin Nordt, Paul Dietz, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery talk about managing market risk from utility risk managers perspectives. Including (1) put…
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BONUS: Windowless Conference Room Edition
1:03:32
1:03:32
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1:03:32Ben Serrurier, Lea Fisher, Matt Schroettnig, and Paul Dockery share some energy themed maybe-good-maybe-bad-brainstorming ideas during a special windowless conference room in-person recording. Ben Serrurier, Lea Fisher, Matthew Schroettnig, and Paul Dockery were all in Anchorage, Alaska for NWPPA’s 83rd Annual Conference and Membership Meeting so t…
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Debriefing from a Markets+ Leadership Forum
1:03:23
1:03:23
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1:03:23Pam Sporborg, Spencer Gray, Joe Taylor and Paul Dockery debrief and synthesize the discussion from an SPP Markets+ Leadership Forum hosted by Tacoma Power, NV Energy, and the Bonneville Power Administration on May 12th, 2023. 05:04 - Benefits, Opportunities and Barriers to Market Expansion 18:18 - Long-run resource portfolios adapted to market desi…
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Market Design, Slinkies, and Synchronous Condensers with Farhad Billimoria and Conleigh Byers, PhD
1:36:37
1:36:37
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1:36:37learning lessons about deeply decarbonized electricity markets from around the world including optimal prices in non-convex markets, reliability insurance, and system security Farhad Billimoria, Conleigh Byers, PhD, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss adaptation of market design for the energy transition including fat tails and increased …
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A conversation about a just mid-transition w/ Dr. Emily Grubert and Dr. Frank Incropera
1:24:02
1:24:02
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1:24:02Emily Grubert, PhD, Frank Incropera, PhD, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss natural gas distribution system obsolescence, energy security during the transition away from fossil fuels, the magic of heat pumps, increased reliance on electric utility reliability, and the wickedness of the problem of a just energy transition. You can find t…
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BONUS EPISODE: Power Contracts in Transition
1:06:51
1:06:51
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1:06:51Laura Trolese, Tyler Wolford, Matt Johnson, and Paul Dockery recorded an episode at a spas about how power contracts could change during a transition from bilateral to centrally dispatched markets. In a special, bonus episode recorded at the One Ocean Resort & Spas in Atlantic Beach, Florida during The Energy Authority’s 2023 Energy Symposium, Laur…
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A conversation about transmission w/ Rob Gramlich and Kathleen Staks
1:18:20
1:18:20
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1:18:20Rob, Kathleen, Ahlmahz, and Paul discuss the transmission expansion: it's importance, it's barriers, and it's path forward. Rob Gramlich, Kathleen Staks, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss transmission policy, planning, and funding in light of the increased need for an interconnected grid due to electrification of end-uses, new generator…
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Debriefing from a Regional Expansion Summit
1:20:16
1:20:16
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1:20:16With quotes from the hit comedy “Shrinking”, Paul navigates the vibes after a Regional Expansion Summit hosted by Seattle City Light, Portland General Electric, and the Bonneville Power Administration Jan Smutny-Jones, Mary Wiencke, Jim Shetler, and Chris Robinson join Paul Dockery to debrief and synthesize the participants shared understanding aft…
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A Conversation About Representative Workforce w/ Jackie Flowers and Humaira Falkenberg
1:25:29
1:25:29
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1:25:29Jackie Flowers, PE, Humaira Falkenberg, Karen Heim, and Ahlmahz Negash, PhD discuss pathways to workforces that are representative of our communities in an all-female-cast episode of Public Power Underground. 05:07 - Introduction of Diverse Workforce of the Future article by Jackie Flowers, PE, in NWPPA’s Monthly Bulletin 24:14 - Lessons learned fr…
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Market Disruptors - LIVE from the Main Stage
1:02:32
1:02:32
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1:02:32LIVE! from the main stage at The Energy Authority's 2023 Energy Symposium, Paul and Laura moderate a panel on market disruptors with energy executives and leaders Paul Dockery and Laura Trolese moderate a panel on disruptors to resource adequacy, day-ahead, and real-time markets at The Energy Authority’s 2023 Energy Symposium with Melie Vincent, Ri…
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Sarah Edmonds on Grid Integration Services
1:18:12
1:18:12
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1:18:12Sarah Edmonds, Crystal Ball, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss a how resource adequacy design theory applies to resource adequacy program design, why FERC asked questions about market based rate authority, what it means for a program to be interoperable, and where inter-regional transmission is coming from. 06:08 - Reminder for friends …
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Prof. Jacob Mays on Electric Markets & Resource Adequacy
1:24:38
1:24:38
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1:24:38Jacob Mays, PhD, Matt Schroettnig, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery discuss a paper Prof. Mays co-authored on contractual form in electricity reliability obligations, how it applies to the program getting developed in the Northwest, and what perspective he has on electric market development in the Northwest. 06:52 - discuss recently published …
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Distribution Systems w/ Prof. Kyri Baker
1:01:29
1:01:29
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1:01:29Kyri Baker, PhD, Karen Heim, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery address topical energy issues and share stories in the latest episode of Public Power Underground. 06:36 - hot takes and lessons to be learned from Winter Storm Elliott oral history of the winter storm elliott takes on #energytwitter compiled by Brian Bartholomew TVA and Duke Energy…
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LIVE from the Lounge at NWPPA’s Power Supply Conference hosts Paul Dockery, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Dan Catchpole play an energy-themed analogy game; Arne Olson and Laura Trolese make sports analogies to electric markets in a continuation of Season 4’s Electric Market Enthusiasm Series; and Debra Smith joins to rant about energy and energy-adjacen…
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Nicole Hughes, Karen Heim, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, and Paul Dockery address topical energy issues and share stories in the latest episode of Public Power Underground. 06:43 - debrief from The NY Times article on the opportunities awaiting electric utilities How utilities can maximize IIJA and IRA benefits a new way to reference the Bipartisan Infrastr…
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BONUS EPISODE: Original Cast, Nostalgia Pod
15:20
15:20
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15:20Goodbyes are hard and tend to be cringeworthy. WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A SPECIAL EPISODE!!! The original cast of Public Power Underground gets together for a nostalgic recording with a throwback script to celebrate Ian Bledsoe's promotion to Senior Power Analyst, and acknowledge Paul Dockery's last day at Clatskanie PUD. 3:48 - Celebration of Ian B…
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Lea Fisher, Ahlmahz Negash, PhD, Dan Catchpole, and Paul Dockery cover electric utility and electric-utility-adjacent news in Season 5, Episode 3. 06:32 - introduce Ahlmahz Negash, PhD as new co-host for Public Power Underground Ahlmahz has been a recurring guest on Public Power Underground and even accepted the designation of a Special Corresponde…
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Politics and Policy w/ Travis Kavulla
1:09:57
1:09:57
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1:09:57Travis Kavulla, Abigail Sawyer, Dan Catchpole, and Paul Dockery cover electric utility and electric-utility-adjacent news in Season 5, Episode 2. 05:51 - energy angles to election coverage Abigail Sawyer coverage of elections in the Southwest in California Energy Markets Anne Ernst coverage of California elections in California Energy Markets Dan C…
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Clean Dispatchable Resource Enthusiasm w/ Kieran Connolly
1:14:21
1:14:21
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1:14:21Kieran Connolly, Dan Catchpole, Abigail Sawyer, and Paul Dockery kick off the Season 5 premier of Public Power Underground. 06:11 - what evolution into a centrally dispatched market means for a hydro-centric region SPP Sees Markets+ as Potential Path to Full RTO in the West Carrie Simpson to serve as Southwest Power Pool’s director of western servi…
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Electric Market Enthusiasm, pt. 5: an Expert Panel on where Sports! and Markets! combine.
1:25:28
1:25:28
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1:25:28In the fifth installment of Public Power Underground’s Electric Market Enthusiasm series, an expert panel including Laura Trolese (Senior Market Design & Policy Analyst, The Energy Authority), Carrie Simpson (Director - Western Markets, Xcel Energy), and Jeff Spires (Director - Power, PowerEx) discuss different choices made in market paradigms and …
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FERC Chair Richard Glick! featured in part 4 of our Electric Market Enthusiasm series
41:25
41:25
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41:25Richard Glick, the Chair of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), joined Crystal Ball, Matt Schroettnig, and Paul Dockery for the fourth installation of our Electric Market Enthusiasm series. We try to keep it light while discussing transmission, batteries, price formation, the incremental approach to market expansion, governance, and FE…
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