Stories about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. Guests from pro cycling, sports, politics, business, tech, journalism, the military and more. Resilience, grit, mental health, high performance, mindfulness. Host Andrew Vontz is an entrepreneur & co-founder of TheBetterLab.io, the company that helps you build mindful, science-backed practices to sleep better. Previously, he was a Strava executive; a communications leader at the human performance company, TRX; and a journ ...
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Andrew Vontz Podcasts

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15 Minutes Is Enough to Train – Spencer Martin (Beyond the Peloton / WEDU) x Andrew Vontz (Choose the Hard Way / One Real Voice))
21:32
21:32
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21:32Spencer Martin of Beyond the Peloton / WEDU / Peacock’s Tour de France team & Andrew Vontz, co-host of the Beyond the Peloton podcast & creator of the Choose the Hard Way podcast & newsletter talk about why 15 minute training sessions count and how we get it done on the road, at the playground with the kids or at home. We’re both dads, bike racers …
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Josh Turek - 2x Paralympic Gold Medalist - U.S. Senate candidate from Iowa - ex Pro Wheelchair Basketball Player
46:42
46:42
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46:42Josh Turek knows how to win. A U.S. Senate candidate, current Iowa State Legislator, and two-time Paralympic gold medalist for Team USA, Josh joins Andrew Vontz & Jonathan Kaplan on United States of Sweat presented by Choose the Hard Way. This is the show where politicians and policymakers share stories about fitness, health and the sports they lov…
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Pro Cyclist Payson McElveen - The Hardest Ride Is the One You Don’t See - on Creativity, Pressure & What Comes Next
1:13:41
1:13:41
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1:13:41Choose the Hard Way creator Andrew Vontz (@hardwaypod) in conversation with pro cyclist Payson McElveen (@paysonmcelveen), Red Bull athlete and creator of the With Pace podcast & Riding with Pace YouTube channel. In a sport filled with mustaches, Payson McElveen has the most famous mustache. Payson’s palmares includes a pair of wins at The Mid Sout…
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Stephen Starring Grant - Author of MAILMAN: My Wild Ride Delivering the Mail in Appalachia and Finally Finding Home
1:06:25
1:06:25
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1:06:25Choose the Hard Way creator Andrew Vontz in conversation with Steve Grant, author of the memoir MAILMAN: My Wild Ride Delivering the Mail in Appalachia and Finally Finding Home. With rave reviews in The New York Times, the Washington Post, The New Yorker and The Atlantic, the memoir MAILMAN: My Wild Ride Delivering the Mail in Appalachia and Finall…
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Rahm Emanuel was the U.S. Ambassador to Japan from 2022 to 2025. Prior to that, he served as the White House Chief of Staff from 2009 to 2010 under President Barack Obama, and as the Mayor of Chicago from 2011 to 2019. He also represented Illinois in the U.S. House of Representatives from 2003 to 2009. Welcome back to United States of Sweat present…
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Cameron Jones - Unbound Gravel 2025 Champion
1:07:21
1:07:21
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1:07:21Cameron Jones won the 2025 edition of the 205-mile Unbound Gravel, the most competitive edition ever of the most prestigious gravel race on the planet. Three months earlier, he showed up in America, walked into a used car dealership in the Bay Area, walked off the lot with a used Honda Odyssey and a dream to make this his best season ever. But thes…
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One Hour to Train - What do you do? w/ Spencer Martin of Beyond the Peloton / WEDU x Andrew Vontz of Choose the Hard Way
19:20
19:20
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19:20You've got an hour or less to train, what do you do? Spencer Martin of the Beyond the Peloton newsletter & podcast + WEDU's Outcomes / The Move takes a break from the Tour de France to join Choose the Hard Way creator Andrew Vontz to talk about what they do when life and work are at max stress and you have little time to workout. Is Zone 2 really t…
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Tom Perriello: Congressman, Special Envoy - United States of Sweat
56:14
56:14
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56:14Welcome back to United States of Sweat presented by Choose the Hard Way where politicians and policymakers join us to share stories about fitness, health and the sports they love playing. In 2008 Tom Perriello won the election to represent Virginia’s 5th Congressional district by fewer than 1,000 votes. He later ran for governor of Virginia and he …
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United States of Sweat with Ambassador Jeff Flake - Desert Island Survival, Long-Distance Swimming & More
41:43
41:43
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41:43During a divided time in America, our love of sports and fitness cross party lines and can keep us healthy as individuals and bring us together as a nation. The United States of Sweat is a new series from Choose the Hard Way that features the world’s leading political leaders and policy makers sharing stories about what they do to stay healthy, fit…
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From Start up to End up - From The Better Lab to One Real Voice & Beyond - Andrew Vontz x Shannon Jones
2:00:05
2:00:05
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2:00:05Subscribe to the Choose the Hard Way substack at www.alwaysthehardway.substack.com for a look behind the scenes of this episode and human-generated insights about bikes, zen and life. Walking away from an executive role at a high-growth unicorn to go all-in & start up your own company sounds cool. What happens when a highly promising start up with …
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Pro Cyclist Chase Wark pt. 1 - Mega Mid South FKT
28:15
28:15
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28:15Pro gravel cyclist Chase Wark joins me today to talk about setting the fastest known time on the 300-mile Mega Mid South gravel loop after wildfires devastated the Stillwater, Oklahoma area and cancelled the Mid South gravel race. Find Chase @chasethebiker on Instagram. I wrote a story with my thoughts and reflections on the interview you’ll hear t…
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Harry Sweeny - Pro Cycling & High Performance Living
1:01:48
1:01:48
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1:01:48The #1 thing you can do to support this podcast is to subscribe to the Choose the Hard Way substack. Just go to substack and search for ‘Choose the Hard Way’ or go to https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/ and hit subscribe today. That’s where Andrew Vontz writes about bikes, zen and life + shares his reflections on conversations with guests on the…
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Christopher Blevins - the World Champion & Olympian on Mindfulness + the Transformative Power of Community & Bikes
51:37
51:37
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51:37Christopher Blevins is a mindfulness practitioner who builds community and a more inclusive and healthy world through bikes. He’s one of the best professional mountain bikers America has ever produced and one of the best in the world. He has won the Cape Epic and taken gold in the mountain bike world championships in the short track and cross-count…
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Rewind: Olympic Gold Medalist Kristen Faulkner - The Power of Positive Risk Taking, Why She Walked Away from Her Dream Job & the Path to Pro Cycling Success
58:34
58:34
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58:34Kristen Faulkner is an American pro cyclist who won the gold medal in the women’s cycling road race at the Paris Olympics in truly stunning fashion, surpassing two of the most dominant racers in the sport with a bold attack that left them looking at each other while she drilled it to victory. It’s one of my favorite bike races I’ve ever watched. If…
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Cory Richards pt. 2 - the Legendary Alpinist & Nat Geo Photographer on his new book 'The Color of Everything' - Rising, Falling & Beginning Again
49:31
49:31
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49:31A student struggling with his practice once asked the zen master Shunryu Suzuki to boil down Buddhism into a single phrase. Suzuki thought for a moment, then he responded: everything changes. This is part two of my conversation with Cory Richards about his memoir, The Color of Everything. Cory is bipolar and at different moments in his life he has …
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Rewind: 2nd at the Unbound 100 Gravel Race 2014 with @vontz x @blakeotoday - from the Archives
1:28:30
1:28:30
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1:28:30Doing hard things with friends is fun and even when you lose, you win. In 2014 I took second at Unbound 100 and superstar creator and now BJJ black belt @blakeoftoday took third. This episode originally dropped in 2019. I skipped the weddings of several close friends and trained 20+ hours many weeks for months to prepare for this event. When we did…
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Joe Petrowski: Quitting Rocket Science to Be a Pro Cyclist in France
56:28
56:28
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56:28Joe Petrowski landed a great job as an aerospace engineer right out of college. Then he got the bike racing bug. People told him to stick with his demonstrably awesome, impressive and very high paying gig. Instead, he quit to go live in at times dismal conditions to be a pro cyclist, first in the UK then in France. And if you’re not familiar with d…
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Cory Richards - Presence is the Real Summit - Beyond Everest & Life as a National Geographic Adventurer of the Year & Photographer
42:45
42:45
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42:45Charisma, fame, good looks, superhuman physical and artistic achievement. Some people seem to have done everything and to be everything you dream of becoming. And as Cory Richards shares in this interview, everything can be nothing and anything can be the opportunity for presence, mindfulness and connection to who and what matters most. Cory climbe…
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Heather Jackson: Gravel & Ultra Trail Running Pro - Positive Risks, Growth & the Power of Starting Something New
1:00:56
1:00:56
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1:00:56Heather Jackson has won six full Ironman triathlons, 16 Ironman 70.3 races, the Escape from Alcatraz triathlon and she also won the Wildflower triathlon four times. She played D1 hockey at Princeton where she was a two-time captain and was on the US National team for cycling track racing. In 2023, she left triathlon to be a pro gravel racer AND a p…
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Michael Marckx - Belgian Waffle Ride Founder
1:03:01
1:03:01
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1:03:01Michael Marckx is the founder and CEO of the Belgian Waffle Ride, one of the biggest and most influential multi-surface, gravelish series in the world. He’s a prime mover behind what has become today’s booming gravel scene and wow, this guy has lived what would be 20 lives the average human. We talk everything that went into the birth of the BWR in…
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Joe Goettl: Gravel Pro Cyclist x YouTuber on Making it as a Privateer
1:02:04
1:02:04
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1:02:04Joe Goettl grew up working on a farm, almost made it as a pro snowboarder and went deep into competitive running--until he hit an endless string of injuries that doctors said would end his athletic career. Here we are in 2023 and Joe is a rising YouTuber & pro cyclist knocking on the door of gravel greatness. During the week, Joe trains, coaches at…
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Kimo Seymour - Building the LifeTime Grand Prix + Endurance in Life, Business & Sport
1:06:44
1:06:44
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1:06:44One day you wake up and a thing called the Life Time Grand Prix exists and two years later it’s all anyone who follows pro cycling in America can talk about. How did we get here? And what’s next? Today, we find out. Kimo Seymour is the Senior Vice President of Media and Events at Life Time and the creator of the Life Time Grand Prix. He’s also an e…
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Alexis Skarda - Pro Cyclist, National Champion, Music Producer + DJ
1:12:05
1:12:05
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1:12:05Alexis Skarda is a professional cyclist who rides for the Santa Cruz HtSqd and is the US Marathon National Cross-Country Mountain Bike Champion, a Lifetime Grand Prix racer, an emerging electronic music artist and she’s a formidable force on the 1s and 2s as a DJ as well as a podium threat at any gravel race she enters. I love to produce electronic…
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Drew Dillman & Dylan Johnson - Gravel Racing 90210 -- The Lifetime Grand Prix, BWR and Beyond
1:24:57
1:24:57
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1:24:57Dylan Johnson and Drew Dillman join @vontz to talk about pro gravel racing 90210 and the fun they had battling for 17th place at the final race of the Lifetime Grand Prix series, Big Sugar down in Bentonville, Arkansas, home of Walmart and the global epicenter of competitive cycling. We get into the past, present and future of pro gravel, why commu…
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Joe De Sena Spartan Race Founder & CEO - Exclusive: Near Death Wipeouts in Life & Business
56:16
56:16
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56:16Joe De Sena is the founder and CEO of Spartan and creator of the Spartan Race and the infamous Death Race. After he created a hugely successful Wall Street trading firm, Joe left finance behind in 2001 to build a new life and a new business from a farm in rural Vermont. His goal was to change 100 million lives through experiences like those he had …
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@tristantakephoto on Racing 800 Miles Across Morocco’s Atlas Mountains & Selling Everything to Start the Life He Wanted
59:00
59:00
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59:00Tristan Cardew, aka @tristantakephoto, sold everything and moved from Sydney, Australia to Girona, Spain to build a life that revolved around cycling and visual storytelling. Five years later, he’s racing gravel and road at a high level and has built the creative career he dreamed about making happen. His YouTube channel, TristanTakeVideo, has more…
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#100 - Hard Things Build Stronger Humans Who Have More Fun - Andrew Vontz x @Blakeoftoday
58:21
58:21
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58:21Six years ago, I launched Choose the Hard Way to inspire more people to embrace the idea that doing hard things builds stronger humans who have more fun. My guests are among the very best in the world at what they do and I’ve been lucky that they’ve graciously shared their stories here. To celebrate 100 episodes, I’m doing something different and s…
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Pete Stetina: the OG Gravel Pro on Racing while Parenting, Where Gravel is Headed & Exiting the World Tour to Enter a Van
1:11:57
1:11:57
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1:11:57Pete Stetina grew up in a famous cycling family and became a highly accomplished pro road racer who raced the Giro D’Italia four times, the Tour de France twice and the Vuelta Espana twice. When he started dabbling in gravel racing, in 2019, he was still doing 80 race days a year in the World Tour while winning iconic events like the original recip…
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Vince Murdock: Team Alpha Male MMA fighter on Brain Surgery, The Ultimate Fighter & Building an Inclusive Cycling Community
53:57
53:57
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53:57Vince Murdock is a professional mixed martial arts fighter who came up from difficult circumstances and worked his entire life to get into the UFC. When he finally got the call, a pre-fight brain scan showed he had Moyamoya disease and a life-threatening arterial blockage. Following brain surgery that involved removing a quarter of his skull, Vince…
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Drew Dillman: Pro Cyclist, Creator, Entrepreneur & Soon to Be Gravel Racing Icon
1:12:07
1:12:07
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1:12:07Drew Dillman is a pro cyclist who, until now, has focused on cyclocross and criterium racing. In recent months, Drew has aimed for the fences like Babe Ruth and hyped his plans to catapult into the LifeTime Grand Prix series and become a gravel icon. He co-hosts the Matchbox and Bonk Bros podcasts and is co-founder of Ignition Coach Co, a coaching …
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Iz King: From Wall Street to Pro Athlete & Creating a Life and Career on an Unmarked Course
1:12:52
1:12:52
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1:12:52Iz King left Wall Street to pedal for gold on gravel roads and trails across America as a pro cyclist in the LifeTime Grand Prix. She played D1 soccer for Columbia University where she was the team captain, traded equities for UBS then got into racing triathlons while completing her MBA at UCLA. So what leads someone to step off the fintech yellow …
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Michelle “MACE” Curran: ex USAF Thunderbird Lead Soloist, F16 Fighter Pilot, Endurance Athlete & Entrepreneur
1:08:21
1:08:21
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1:08:21Michelle Curran, call sign MACE, spent three years flying in the United States Air Force Thunderbirds aerial demonstration team and was the lead soloist for two of those years flying on the outer left wing of the delta formation. Michelle was the fifth woman ever to be a member of the Thunderbirds and while deployed as a fighter pilot in Afghanista…
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Derek Teel: Dialed Health Founder & former Pro Downhill & Enduro MTB Racer on Building Strength & Finding Balance in Sport, Life & Business
1:14:12
1:14:12
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1:14:12With years of cycling and endurance experience under his belt, Derek Teel now dedicates his life to providing strength training programs and coaching through his app and platform dialedhealth.com, helping cyclists around the world become healthier and perform better. In this episode, we'll dive into Derek's journey from building bike ramps and work…
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Pro Cyclist Kerry Werner on the Rise of Gravel, the Contraction of Cross, the Lifetime Grand Prix & Creator Life
1:06:56
1:06:56
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1:06:56Kerry Werner was living the hardcore multi-discipline pro cyclist life long before it was cool and has been bringing viewers inside the races on YouTube for nearly a decade. During that time, he has gone from an ace mountain bike pro to one of the brightest American stars in cyclocross to taking the now inevitable leap into the Belgian Waffle Ride …
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Unbound XL Winner Kristen Legan + Gravel Legend & Author Nick Legan
1:11:17
1:11:17
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1:11:17Unbound XL winner Kristen Legan & Gravel legend Nick Legan on racing, adventure, bikepacking and teamwork in sport, life and marriage as lived at Unbound Gravel, Ride the Divide, TransIowa and more. The inside line on the months of prep, recon and planning that went into Unbound XL, why Kristen and Nick like to go deep, why they choose the hard way…
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Pt. 2 - Paris-Roubaix Winner Alison Jackson on the Tour de France Femmes, the Psychology of Winning, Bison Farming & More
1:09:45
1:09:45
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1:09:45Paris-Roubaix Femmes winner, Olympian and current Canadian national road race champion Alison Jackson is back for her second appearance on Choose the Hard Way to talk about Tour de France Femmes and more. Alison is a major favorite for a stage win and her EF Education Tibco-SVB team is expected to animate the race. Alison is well known for her work…
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Mitch Docker on Life in the Peloton, Life After the World Tour, Building a Content Empire & More
57:02
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57:02Mitch Docker is the creator of the Life in the Peloton podcast and a former World Tour pro cyclist. Mitch raced the biggies including the Giro and Vuelta and rode for legendary squads including EF, Green Edge and Skil Shimano. He was best known as a leadout man, classics rider and road captain. He’s equally well known for his highly entertaining st…
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Olympian Brent Bookwalter on Riding for a Tour de France-winning Team, Making Peacock’s Tour de France Broadcast Team & his Future in Performance Psychology
1:03:22
1:03:22
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1:03:22Brent Bookwalter is a Tour de France commentator for the NBC Peacock team. He spent 16 years as a pro cyclist and raced in the World Tour including on the BMC squad that helped Cadel Evans win the 2011 Tour de France. He shares about his experiences before, during and after his career as a pro cyclist, the path that led him to pursue a graduate deg…
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Veloworthy Founder Brian Co on Covering Unbound Gravel, Belgian Waffle Ride & Pro Gravel Racing from the Inside the Way It has Never Been Covered Before
39:39
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39:39Veloworthy founder Brian Co on building a sports media empire solo while working full time and raising a family. Brian has single-handedly built a dedicated following by profiling top cycling pros and providing an inside look at the world of gravel cycling that traditional media outlets have failed to capture. Now, Veloworthy is one of the most inf…
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Keegan Swenson: 2023 Unbound Gravel Winner & htSQD Cyclist
44:25
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44:25Keegan Swenson continues to dominate the gravel racing world, winning this year's Unbound Gravel in tough conditions after a runner-up finish in 2022. Swenson's prowess on the dirt is also backed by his affiliation with Santa Cruz Bicycles htSQD, an elite group of multi-surface racers. It's no wonder that Keegan is known as the top gravel racer on …
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Ian Boswell: 2021 Unbound Gravel Champion, Retired World Tour Pro Cyclist on Competition, Balance, Starting Over and the Past, Present & Future of Gravel
1:04:48
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1:04:48After being forced to retire from professional cycling due to a series of concussions, Ian Boswell reinvented himself as a dominant force in the new world of gravel racing - and he's not looking back. The 2021 Unbound Gravel 200 champion was formerly a member of Team Sky, the world's top pro cycling team at the time, where he competed in all three …
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Ben Davis: Navy SEAL Veteran, MTB Racer, Mountaineer + Veteran Outdoor Advocacy Group Exec. Director
1:11:03
1:11:03
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1:11:03After a decade as a United States Navy SEAL, Ben Davis is now conquering peaks, competing in races and coaching. He is also the executive director of the Veterans Outdoor Advocacy Group (VOAG) - a non-profit that promotes access to outdoor adjunct therapies for all veterans. In his last few years of service, he completed numerous mountaineering end…
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Alison Jackson: Paris-Roubaix Winner, Pro Cyclist + Content Creator
53:55
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53:55From growing up on a bison farm to winning the 2023 Paris-Roubaix Femmes, Alison Jackson is now known for more than just her world class wins. The pro cyclist with UCI Women's WorldTeam EF Education–Tibco–SVB has also gone viral on TikTok. Alison has come a long way thanks to her unique blend of humor and athletic intuition. When she was younger, s…
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Chris Case: Scientist, Author, Endurance Athlete + Founder of Alter Exploration
1:08:26
1:08:26
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1:08:26Entrepreneur, scientist, and author Chris Case knows how to design a challenge. His company, Alter Exploration, curates intense, application-only custom cycling and trail running trips. Alter's experiences are built to test physical limits, foster emotional growth, and encourage mental evolution. As a former cycling journalist and lifelong enduranc…
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Zach Nehr: Pro Zwift Racer, Data Journalist + Cycling Coach
1:13:36
1:13:36
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1:13:36Pioneering sports data journalist and coach Zach Nehr has always been ahead of the curve. He is one of the first journalists to do deep quantitative analyses of power data from the world's top pro cyclists, and now he’s transferred that knowledge to the growing scene of virtual racing. An elite level competitor in road, track and cycling esports, Z…
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Ben Delaney: Journalist + YouTuber on Racing Gravel, Reviewing Gear & Independent Cycling Media
1:04:38
1:04:38
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1:04:38As a respected journalist, Ben Delaney has written and edited for top outlets like VeloNews, BikeRadar, and Cycling Weekly. He’s also the director of content at FasCat Coaching. Last year, he decided it was time to take a crack at creating his own cycling content. Enter Ben's YouTube channel, The Ride. With a million views in just a year, it's clea…
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Syd and Macky -- MTB Pro Cyclists x YouTubers - a no BS look at Van Life, Pro Athlete Life, Creator Life and riding the trail to 17 million views
1:08:44
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1:08:44Professional racing duo Syd Schulz and Macky Franklin are on a quest to race the best and most challenging mountain bike races in America, filming their adventures along the way to give viewers an unvarnished look at the reality of living on the road as professional cyclists. After traveling in a tiny orange car, then a series of (old, janky) white…
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Dylan Johnson: YouTuber + Pro Cyclist
1:02:54
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1:02:54Dylan Johnson’s skill on the bike, coupled with his popular YouTube videos about exercise physiology and racing tactics have put him at the forefront of cycling culture. He’s a renowned professional cyclist racing in the Lifetime Grand Prix gravel and mountain bike national series and the co-founder of Ignition Coaching Co. In this episode, he talk…
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Craig Dalton: Entrepreneur, Tech Founder & Host of The Gravel Ride Podcast
1:12:20
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1:12:20Cycling has influenced Craig Dalton in business and life. He is the dynamic co-founder and CEO of DODOcase and DODOcase VR, and current VP of Portfolio a Founder in Residence at Collaborative Fund. He’s also the host of The Gravel Ride, a podcast that recently hit the one-million download mark. His passion for the bike industry led him to Dean Tita…
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Long before Cameron Mason made it to the podium, he was filming and creating content about racing. Cameron is a Scottish professional cyclist and filmmaker who has amassed over 2.5 million views on YouTube documenting his experiences in cyclocross, road racing and mountain bike racing. His distinctive style on the bike and behind the lens caught th…
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