Hello, I am a marital therapist, communications trainer and author. I have thirty-five years helping couples and individuals make better relationships. I have written twenty-plus self-help books which include the international best-sellers ‘I love you but I’m not in love with you’ and ‘How can I ever trust you again?’ My books have been translated into twenty languages. I trained with RELATE the UK’s largest counselling charity. Perhaps it has been turning sixty but I have become interested ...
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Giving You the History and Context Behind the Headlines
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Real talk about cheating, delivered by friends who get it. Your hosts are Tracy Schorn, aka Chump Lady who runs the advice site ChumpLady.com, and Sarah Gorrell, a BBC radio journalist and mighty single mum of four. We talk with resilient people who survived infidelity and to experts about cheaters, relationships, parenting, and, of course, mightiness. Sarah brings the dulcet tones. Tracy brings the snark. New episodes every week.
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Penny Wincer: How to Care Without Burning Out
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48:04Society would grind to a halt without the work done by unpaid carers - yet they are too often left to feel invisible, unsupported and alone. In this episode, Andrew talks to PENNY WINCER, the author of Tender: The Imperfect Art of Caring, about how to provide care for loved ones without burning out yourself. Penny shares her deeply personal story o…
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84. Affair Proofing Your Marriage and Andrew G. Marshall
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42:21In this re-edited version of an early broadcast, Tracy and Sarah challenge therapist Andrew G. Marshall on his promise that marriages can be affair-proofed. Did he say that? Was he taken out of context when he told women that they must apologize to their unfaithful husbands?By Tracy Schorn, Sarah Gorrell
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85. Sexually Deceptive People -- An Interview with Dr. Omar Minwalla
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48:15In this re-edited version of an earlier recording, Sarah and Tracy spoke with Dr. Omar Minwalla, a therapist who is known for his work "The Secret Sexual Basement." He sees infidelity as abusive and a sexual deception problem, which makes him something of an outlier in the therapy community. We talk about his model, infidelity as abuse, and how to …
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When did you last learn to do something totally and utterly new? Tom Vanderbilt, author of Beginners: the Joy and Transformative Power of Lifelong Learning, was awestruck by his young daughter’s insatiable need to know how to do almost everything. He was inspired by her to embark on a year of learning purely for its own sake. Tom had a truly unique…
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83. The Weirdest Things Cheaters Wanted in the Divorce or Breakup
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34:55In this episode we hear about all the imponderable things cheaters wanted in the breakup. Not real estate, or children, or sentimental items. But weird stuff, like flooring tiles they'll never use. Or that book on West Virginia coal mining. Or your grandmother's dining room set. Is it spite? Are they clueless? Tracy and Sarah react to your many sub…
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In a world that often rewards toughness and detachment, could empathy actually be a hidden superpower? This week, Andrew speaks with psychiatrist and bestselling author Dr. Judith Orloff about how empathy can become one of the most powerful tools for healing, personal growth and connection. Drawing on neuroscience, psychology, and energy medicine, …
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82. The Jesus Cheater Who Thought She'd "Fight" for Him
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8:02In this short episode, Tracy and Sarah respond to a letter from a woman who's husband was astounded that after decades of marriage she left him. He was a church deacon, a Jesus cheater, with a double life. As she left, he told her "I thought you'd fight harder for me."By Tracy Schorn, Sarah Gorrell
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Today, the “four pale horsemen” of war, famine, pestilence and death have broken into our comfortable lives once again. As the climate emergency and shortage become normalised, how do we live through crisis after crisis without falling into fear and anxiety on the one hand, or agitated reaction and rage on the other? Do we face the horsemen, go int…
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Keeping on the theme of good people, we asked listeners who helped them get through infidelity? Who was their guiding angel? A stranger, family member, friend? Cheaters might destroy your trust in humanity, but others renew your faith.By Tracy Schorn, Sarah Gorrell
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Michele Weiner-Davis: When is it Time to Stop Working on Your Marriage?
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57:21Have you tried everything to fix your relationship, but nothing seems to work? Are you torn between staying and giving it one more try, or finally walking away? This week, Andrew talks with renowned couples therapist MICHELE WEINER-DAVIS about how to navigate one of the hardest decisions in a relationship: When is it time to stop trying? Michele is…
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We asked listeners -- what random act of kindness moved you after you were chumped? Tracy tells about her mysterious breakfast benefactor and Sarah shares a story about the time her car broke down. We hear about infidelity angels and kind strangers who appeared at just the right time with encouragement and support. A departure from the usual look a…
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Philip Carr Gomm: How to Live Authentically
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50:24Are you living a life you really believe in, or are you filling in time until your “real life” begins? Are you waiting on marriage, a better job, a new exercise regime or a beautiful house to create an authentic life? Humans do need to have goals and plans, but it is also destructive to ignore those inner voices telling us what would bring us indiv…
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Tracy and Sarah answer your letters including one from a woman who discovered her husband was telling people online that she was dead and referred to another woman and their child as "wife and daughter." Is this a game to him? Is he cheating? Or is this guy a sociopath? Another listener wonders what chumps would do differently if they knew about th…
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Carolyn Sharp: Keep the Spark Alive in Your Relationship
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45:20How do you keep the spark alive in your relationship when there are kids involved and you have ten, twenty, or thirty years on the clock? This week I talk to CAROLYN SHARP, a US-based marital therapist, and the author of Fire It Up: Four Secrets to Reigniting Intimacy and Joy in Your Relationship. We cover: Purpose: could you define a purpose for y…
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This week we asked what your FWs were up to. Of course, the goal is meh, but some of us are still coparenting, or in the midst of divorce, or news of their misadventures travels back. Often with a large dose of schadenfreude and gratitude that these folks are no longer our problem. Aggravating, in trouble with the law, irresponsible... they didn't …
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Simon Roe: Are You Leading a Life of Quiet Desperation?
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50:35“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation” (Henry Thoreau). In this classic episode, Andrew interviews therapist SIMON ROE. Simon has based his life’s work on helping men live an authentic life. After himself going through a period of quiet desperation in his mid-thirties, he went on to he…
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Episode 17 - When Trump Broke Europe, Part 1
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1:05:19In this episode, recorded on March 9, Andrew and Chelsey take on week 1 of when Trump broke Europe. Starting with some background on Germany and its far-right party the AfD, we take our listeners on a whirlwind tour of Europe's hellish first week of madness with the Trump administration, from the Ukraine minerals deal, the Defense Secretary's comme…
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77. Mind Movies and Rumination After Infidelity
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34:07Part of the trauma after infidelity is rumination. The endless mind movies reliving what you know and, worse, imagining what you don’t. In this episode, listeners tell us how they dealt with the endless intrusive thoughts. What therapies worked, who helped, and how they diverted their attention elsewhere. (True crime podcasts anyone?)…
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Evan Marc Katz: Why Can't I Find Lasting Love?
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42:29Many women long to be in a happy relationship, in which they feel safe, heard and understood, but have given up after years of disappointment and heartbreak. This week dating coach EVAN MARC KATZ joins Andrew to discuss why it’s so hard for women to find a man who wants to commit and to build a genuine relationship. They cover: How to get psycholog…
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Episode 16 - The Imperial Presidency - Trump's Potential Plans for Mexico, Panama, Greenland, and Canada
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1:30:21In this episode, recorded on February 12, Chelsey G and Andrew Gavin Marshall follow their previous episode on 'The Authoritarian Presidency' by expanding into the subject of Trump's 'Imperial Presidency' with its sights set on Mexico, Panama, Greenland, and Canada. We take a look at Trump's potential military options in Mexico, his threats to reta…
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For Andrew, it is the writings of Dr James Hollis, one of the world’s most eminent Jungian analysts, that have “sustained me through my dark times”. Dr Hollis’ books also regularly help Andrew’s marital therapy clients create change in their relationships and recover from infidelity. In this classic reissued episode, Andrew speaks to James Hollis a…
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Episode 15 - The Authoritarian Presidency
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1:04:58In this episode, recorded on February 12, Andrew and Chelsey address the project being undertaken by the Trump White House to turn the United States into an authoritarian presidency, or dictatorship, one which also has expansionist aims. We look at America's history of territorial expansion and imperialism, and the era which Trump defines as "great…
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Elizabeth Earnshaw: How to Stop Stress Undermining Your Love for Each Other
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51:44Is your relationship a refuge from stress in a turbulent and demanding world? Do you always have each other’s backs? OR has the stress you face at work or in the culture seeped into your home life and created a rift between you? Marital therapist ELIZABETH EARNSHAW, the author of Til Stress Do Us Part, works with couples to identify and address the…
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Episode 14 - The Mad King's Mad Gaza Plan
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1:04:43In this episode, recorded on the 5th of February, 2025, Andrew and Chelsey break down the unhinged press conference held by President Trump unveiling his ‘Gaza Plan’ while receiving his first visit from a foreign leader, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin (Bibi) Netanyahu. The plan’s headlining-grabbing details were for the United States to “take” and…
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76. Aunties on the Bench: Advice from Chumps to the Newly Betrayed
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30:17What advice would you give a new chump knowning what you know now? We heard from many listeners who had hard-won advice for the newly betrayed. How to choose who you tell, to focusing on self-protecting over reconciliation, and deep regrets about pick-me dancing. Who better to tell you than the people who lived it? The idea for the episode was take…
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Dr. Avrum Weiss: Why Men Withdraw When Women Get Angry
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53:14When women and men argue, women can often be more comfortable in expressing their feelings of hurt and anger. Men can feel distressed by this strength of feeling, and may pull away emotionally. They may feel a very strong urge to occupy the ground of rationality and objectivity, which in turn leads their partner to push harder, desperately seeking …
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"I'm sorry, but you didn't like octopus," is among the more ridiculous apologies a cheater has given for being unfaithful. In this episode, Tracy and Sarah react to your submissions for lamest non-apology apologies you received. The sad sausages for whom this hurts them too, more really. Those whose only crime was wanting happiness, and how can you…
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Dené Logan: Finding the Balance Within of Your Masculine & Feminine Forces
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49:00Does something feel off about your intimate relationships? According to author and couples therapist Dené Logan, the answer to your problem may lie in the interplay of your masculine and feminine energies. Masculine and feminine polarities are present in every person and relationship. When we’re out of touch with the energetics within ourselves and…
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74. How to Be a Supportive Friend to Someone Who Was Cheated On
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21:42Sarah and Tracy answer a letter from a listener wondering how she can be a supportive friend to someone who is in an abusive marriage with a cheater. When should you worry about your own personal safety, or call child services? Is there anything you can do beyond standing by and listening?By Tracy Schorn, Sarah Gorrell
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Charlotte Fox Weber: What Do You Really Want? Why This Question Scares Us
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47:11Life brings to all of us long periods where we feel lost or confused. We don't know how to get what we want, or even what it is that we want. The struggle to articulate the thing that might really make us “come alive” can be profound, even if we enter therapy. Charlotte Fox Weber is a psychotherapist, author and the founding head of The School of L…
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Episode 13 - Is Trumpism a Brand of Fascism?
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1:31:31In this episode, the first of 2025, Andrew and Chelsey take a look at the first few days of the Trump administration, and ask and explore the question as to whether or not Trumpism reflects a kind of modern-day version of fascism. They examine this question by going through some of the historical precedents of fascism, analyzing defining features a…
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73. Coercive Controllers -- An Interview with Dr. Emma Katz
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54:29Tracy talks with domestic violence researcher Dr. Emma Katz about her book, "Coercive Control in Children's and Mothers' Lives." Many recognize violent behavior as transgressive, but more common abuse tactics fall under coercive control -- intimidatation, humiliation, isolation. The abuser's goal is to preserve their entitlement by breaking down th…
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Karla McLaren: How Much Emotion is Too Much?
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47:20If you’re feeling anxious, meditation and mindfulness may not be the answer. Instead, author KARLA McLAREN would advise us to sit with the feelings of anxiety and hear the useful messages they’re bringing to help us cope with a tricky situation. In this episode, Andrew and Karla discuss: How anger, shame and sadness can be the bearers of crucial in…
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72. She's 7 Months Pregnant and Caught Her Husband Sexting
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23:03Sarah and Tracy respond to a letter from a woman who discovered her husband is sexting and on dating site while she is 7 months pregnant. She thinks he has an addiction to the validation, but still loves her. It's just that he starts cheating and gets checked out. Should she move in with her parents? She wants to know how she can be mighty now, whe…
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Kay Hutchinson: Navigating a Midlife Crisis
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56:56
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56:56Have you ever felt so defeated and frustrated that you want to just throw in the towel and run away? Author KAY HUTCHISON did exactly that, fleeing her annual holiday to the Cote d’Azur, moving out of her home, and leaving behind her marriage and a well-established career. In seeking to understand what forced this huge rupture in a previously smoot…
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Bryan Reeves: Why Men Resist Unwanted Feelings & How This Hurts Everyone
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54:20Society teaches men that strength lies in ignoring their feelings and “soldiering on”. Author and relationship coach BRYAN REEVES has seen the costs of this approach both in his own personal life and those of his clients. This week Andrew and Bryan discuss: Bryan’s story of finding direction after leaving the US Air Force. The reasons why men resis…
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Do you think about drinking alcohol more than you think about eating sandwiches? Do you spend significant amounts of time thinking about NOT drinking? Or are you one of the many with an uneasy feeling that alcohol is no longer bringing anything good into your life, and may well be holding you back? Therapist and sobriety expert VERONICA VALLI had a…
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Tracy responds to a woman, Beth, who writes in to say she can't seem to leave her partner even though she's deeply unhappy. She has shady, circumstantial evidence of cheating, but hasn't caught him. But meanwhile he's inappropriate with other women and has a porn addiction. She's not financially dependent on him, so what exactly is keeping her stuc…
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Sarah and Tracy learn what holiday traditions you don't miss from your cheating exes. From obnoxious mother-in-law gifted decor, to the ex who threw a fully lit Christmas tree in a fit of rage. What are you thrilled to no longer live with and what new traditions did you replace the old ones with?By Tracy Schorn, Sarah Gorrell
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Tracey Cox: What We Learned Last Year We'll Be Using This Year
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56:13Where did you find inspiration and meaning in 2024? This week sex therapist and friend of the podcast TRACEY COX joins Andrew to reflect on another year of The Meaningful Life, and to discuss the episodes that meant the most to them. They share highlights from episodes with: Samantha Rodman Whiten (Dr Psych Mom) on Being an Adult Child of Dysfuncti…
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69. Stupid Things People Say When You've Been Cheated On
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40:00People say the most insensitive things when they learn you've been cheated on. Everything from the cliched "It takes two to tango" or "No one knows what goes on in a marriage" to the straight-up victim blaming of "you didn't give him enough sex." Or the self-congratulation of "I'm glad my husband would never cheat on me." Tracy and Sarah react to y…
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Chester Elton: How Gratitude Can Revolutionise Your Life
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49:10It’s hard to move on social media these days without bumping into a post on gratitude. If you’re wondering what all the fuss is about, this week’s classic interview with Chester Elton, “the apostle of appreciation”, is for you. According to Chester, gratitude cuts to the heart of who we really are. Gratitude exists at an emotional level and is abou…
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Episode 12 - South Korea's Political Crisis (with a Side of Canada)
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49:37In this episode, recorded on December 18, Chelsey G and Andrew Marshall take a look at the past couple weeks of crisis in South Korea, prompted by the president's shock declaration of martial law and the subsequent dramatic fallout, leaving Asia's fourth largest economy in a state of political chaos. We inadvertently also take an analogy detour in …
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It's time again for your holiday cheater stories. The terrible gifts, the discoveries, the yuletide double lives... Tracy and Sarah react to your FW tales. Go into the new year knowing -- you are so much better off without these freaks in your life.By Tracy Schorn, Sarah Gorrell
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Christmas Party: The Best & Worst of Christmas Traditions with Love Coach Cate Mackenzie
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49:38Christmas is a time of heightened emotions: lots of fun, lots of food, plenty of arguments. This year Andrew invites friend of the podcast and love coach CATE MACKENZIE to explore what Christmas means to each of them. Cate and Andrew discuss: Their best and worst Christmas experiences. Christmas traditions that work. Most evocative Christmas songs …
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Episode 11 - A Week of Global Chaos
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1:22:47This episode was recorded on December 4, four days before the Syrian rebels took over Damascus and President Assad fled the country. In this episode, Chelsey G and Andrew not only discuss the previous week’s events in Syria, but they also take a step back and look at numerous events around the world that inspire a sense of chaos, including the 6-ho…
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67. The Unknowing Other Woman and Her Child
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19:53
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19:53A listener calls in to discuss being an unknowing Other Woman. Her cheater had three other families, as it turns out, including her child. She asks for understanding for those in complicated family situations. Children of cheaters are victims too.By Tracy Schorn, Sarah Gorrell
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Ru Callender: Do We Need a New Approach to Funerals?
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54:01Do we need a complete rethink of the rituals we use to mark the end of life? This week Andrew talks to undertaker and author RU CALLENDER about what he’s learnt over the course of his career. Ru Callender became an undertaker in order to offer people a more honest experience than the stilted formality of traditional ‘Victorian’ funerals. Driven by …
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66. Gender Bias in Family Court: An Interview with Dr. Christine Cocchiola and Amy Polacko
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42:51In this interview with therapist Dr. Christine Cocchiola and investigative journalist Amy Polacko we discuss gender bias in family court. Both women have experienced domestic violence and in their book Framed, they shared the stories of women whose abusers weaponized the legal system against them in divorce and custody fights. Cocchiola and Polacko…
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Dilip Jeste: Wisdom: Five Ways to Become Wiser
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53:13What does it mean to be wise? Do we grow in wisdom as we age? Pioneering neuropsychiatric researcher Dr Dilip Jeste has spent years investigating the biological and cognitive roots of wisdom. In this reissued classic episode, Andrew and Dilip discuss what we mean when we talk about wisdom, and whether we can, in fact, grow wiser. Dilip describes wh…
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