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Aaron Niequist hosts a podcast through his book--The Eternal Current--one episode per chapter. Each episode will 1) Reflect on the key idea of that chapter, 2) Have a conversation with someone who is living it out in the world, and 3) Learn a concrete practice that helps us flesh this theme into our hearts, bodies, and relationships. Not merely about ideas...but learning how to swim.
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Liminal Living

Dr. Thomas J Rundel

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Welcome to the Liminal Living Podcast, where we dive deep into the realm of liminal spaces—those transitional phases where uncertainty is our companion. I'm your host and curator of conversations, Dr. Tom Rundel, and it's my pleasure to serve as your guide through these uncharted territories. With a doctoral background in spirituality and leadership from Portland Seminary, my research has centered on the spirituality found in the narratives of liminality in the Bible, but I have expanded my ...
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takeaways Lauren's required reading is 'Life of Pi' for its depth. 'Grapes of Wrath' illustrates systemic evil in society. Growing up in a fundamentalist bubble shaped her faith. Trauma led to a painful deconstruction of her beliefs. Emotional prosperity gospel can distort faith expectations. Therapy was a crucial step in her healing process. Trave…
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takeaways Bach's music exemplifies a pure expression of creativity. Creativity flows from a dance between internal and external influences. Individuality is a unique expression of the universal flow. Consciousness transcends the boundaries of ego and identity. The sacred can be found in everyday moments and experiences. Rituals can help us recogniz…
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takeaways Andrew Root feels most comfortable surrounded by his books. The connection between humans and dogs is mystical and profound. Andrew's childhood experiences with grief shaped his faith. Lutheranism has a unique cultural context in the Midwest. Evangelism should focus on consolation rather than mere conversion. The church's role is to walk …
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Take Aways Life experiences broaden your understanding of meaning. Family significantly impacts one's perspective on life. Cultural and community influences shape personal values. Art and beauty provide a deeper understanding of existence. Navigating societal expectations can be challenging. Authenticity is crucial in personal and professional spac…
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Keith Giles has written extensively on biblical topics, including the Book of Romans. The collaborative project with Matthew de Stefano was born out of a shared concern about the misinterpretation of Romans. Romans is often misused to justify negative ideologies, which the authors aim to correct. Understanding the structure of Paul's arguments is c…
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Show Outline: Podcast Reflections & Growth Tom’s journey from uncertainty to confidence in hosting. Lessons from awkward interviews and maintaining consistency. Peter Rollins & Parables Kevin’s college story using Rollins’ parable of the mystic, evangelical, and fundamentalist. The role of mysticism in challenging dogma. Kevin’s New Book: Cosmic Ch…
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takeaways Howard Thurman is a significant figure for understanding hope in difficult times. The current political climate creates a crisis of hope for many. Progressive Christianity can serve as a counterforce to conservative ideologies. Empathy is essential for ethical behavior and morality. There is a divide in Christianity that reflects differin…
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Aaron asks Rev Stephanie three questions about what it means to be a Christ-follower in the world right now, and helps us all reflect on our own lives. First, what location has shaped your faith in helpful and unhelpful ways? Second, why is it so important to gather these days rather than isolate? Third, why have you not given up on the Way of Jesu…
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takeaways Dillon discusses the cultural diversity in Lancaster County, highlighting the coexistence of Amish and Christian nationalists. He emphasizes the importance of love and neighborly kindness in his theological approach. Dillon's writing project critiques Christian nationalism through the lens of Jesus and Paul's teachings. He expresses a des…
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Key Takeaways Christian Nationalism Defined: A political ideology merging American and Christian identities, often excluding non-Christians and enforcing conservative, white supremacist norms. Historical Roots: Christian nationalism is intertwined with the doctrine of discovery, slavery, and segregation, using faith to justify oppression. Power Ove…
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Key Takeaways From Beliefs to Practice: Aaron advocates for shifting from a beliefs-based faith to a practice-based spirituality, where doing (e.g., forgiveness, liturgy, service) shapes belief more than intellectual assent. Ecumenical Future: The future of faith communities lies in crossing denominational silos, integrating traditions (e.g., evang…
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🔑 Key Topics Covered: From Charismatic to Anglican: Preston’s journey from a Tulsa megachurch upbringing to embracing sacramental, liturgical traditions. Why Easter Matters for 50 Days: Rediscovering resurrection as a way of life—not just a doctrine—and its implications for justice, forgiveness, and hope. Liturgical Living: How ancient rhythms (lik…
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🔑 Key Topics Covered: Why Supernaturalism Fails: Unpacking the medieval roots of supernaturalism and its incompatibility with modern questions of suffering (theodicy) and free will. Process Theology 101: Discover how thinkers like Alfred North Whitehead, David Ray Griffin, and Thomas J. Ord redefine God as a relational, persuasive force within—not …
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takeaways Grounding in spiritual practices is essential during chaotic times. Community support can provide strength and resilience. Limiting social media exposure can help maintain mental health. Deconstruction can be a transformative process, akin to a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. Creativity can serve as a pathway to hope and healing. Intent…
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takeaways Danny Bryant grew up in a religious cult that emphasized moral perfection. Literature played a significant role in shaping Danny's worldview and personal growth. Leaving the cult was a long and complex process for Danny, taking over a decade. Danny's experience in the cult led him to question many beliefs and seek a more inclusive faith. …
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takeaways Bad theology shapes harmful societal priorities. Our understanding of God influences our actions. Genesis 1 introduces God as a creator from chaos. Jesus embodies the Word that brings order. Creation reflects a rhythm of forming and filling. Humans are stewards of God's creation, not slaves. Rest is essential for sustaining life and faith…
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Takeaways Brandon's morning routine includes ice baths for wellness. Experiencing a sense of goodness at a young age shaped Brandon's faith. Faith can provide structure but should not be overly rigid. Questions about faith can lead to feeling on the fringes of religious communities. Confession and vulnerability can deepen community connections. Boo…
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takeaways David's early experiences shaped his adventurous spirit. He has a diverse background in various Christian denominations. His journey in faith has been marked by exploration and questioning. A pivotal moment in seminary led to a crisis of faith. David emphasizes the importance of navigating between faith and doubt. He experienced a profoun…
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takeaways Dr. Bauman's book addresses sexism and abuse in the church. He conducted extensive research with over 2,800 women. The church has a history of silencing women's experiences. Authenticity is crucial in addressing personal and communal trauma. Patriarchy fosters a culture of secrecy and shame. Weaponizing forgiveness can harm victims of abu…
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takeaways Taylor is currently fascinated by Nosferatu and its historical context. Nosferatu represents a preconception of vampires before they became romanticized. Horror films often reflect societal anxieties and fears. Taylor's upbringing in Appalachia was marked by a unique blend of faith traditions. A progressive preacher changed Taylor's persp…
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Take Aways Liz became a birth doula after her own experiences with childbirth. The process of becoming a mother can be isolating and taboo. Doulas provide emotional and psychological support during childbirth. Birth is a transformative experience for families, not just individuals. Liz's work as a doula involved helping families navigate their expe…
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takeaways The course 'Whitehead's Universe' aims to introduce beginners to process philosophy. Whitehead's thinking is described as a prism, requiring multiple perspectives to understand. Experience is fundamental to both science and spirituality, shaping our understanding of reality. Process philosophy sees the world as fundamentally verb-like, em…
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takeaways Jeremy identifies as a skeptic pastor, balancing doubt and faith. Choosing beliefs that promote love and acceptance is crucial. The role of a pastor is to help people connect with the divine. Deconstruction is a lifelong process of questioning inherited beliefs. The damage caused by rigid belief systems is often pervasive. Philosophy and …
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In this RECAST conversation with Peter Rollins , we discuss the themes of loss, death, and redemption. He shares his experiences growing up in Northern Ireland and how it shaped his work on scapegoating and peace. Rollins emphasizes the importance of embracing our contradictions and the inherent loss and death that is part of being human. He critiq…
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takeaways Jon has worked at Costco for 30 years and has a diverse personal life. He grew up in a religious household but questioned church teachings from a young age. Jon's early questions about the Bible led to feelings of rebellion during his teenage years. His experiences in theater challenged his views on homosexuality and church teachings. Jon…
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takeaways Catching the Northern Lights was a long-awaited dream. Growing up in evangelical communities shaped my worldview. Fear-based teachings can lead to obsessive faith practices. Experiencing spiritual abuse can lead to complex PTSD. Questioning beliefs is a crucial part of personal growth. YWAM provided both community and indoctrination. Diff…
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Leslie's childhood was marked by instability and a search for connection. She experienced a significant faith shift after a traumatic event involving her daughter. The journey of deconstruction led her to question long-held beliefs. Leslie emphasizes the importance of community and authenticity in faith. She learned to think critically and trust he…
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Scot expresses discouragement over the political alignment of evangelicals with Trump. The conversation highlights the importance of character in leadership. Young people are increasingly disillusioned with the church due to its political affiliations. Scot emphasizes the need for political discipleship in the church. The rise of authoritarianism i…
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takeaways Mattie moved to New York City driven by a strong instinct. Growing up in Branson felt like living on a movie set. Her upbringing was wholesome but came with pressures. She recognizes the good and bad in her evangelical background. Stability in community provided comfort during her teenage years. Questioning beliefs began at a theater camp…
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takeaways Hiking the Camino was a transformative spiritual experience. Reflecting on life in three-month segments helps maintain focus. Faith was a spacious concept in Cassidy's upbringing. Questions about existence began at a young age for Cassidy. Deconstruction of faith can lead to deeper self-understanding. Thomas Merton's writings opened new a…
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takeaways The journey of life often involves navigating liminal spaces. Emotional transitions can be profound and transformative. Writing is a deeply personal and exploratory process. Names hold significant power in shaping identity. Self-definition is an essential part of personal growth. Grief can be processed in various ways, including observati…
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Aaron Niequist invites us into the practice of Centering Prayer. He shares the story of how this practice helped him heal through a difficult season, and guides a short centering prayer during the episode. Show notes, links, and further next steps are at The Between Retreats Substack.By Pastors Priests and Guides
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Takeaways Bradley Jersak emphasizes the importance of community in spiritual growth. He reflects on the trauma experienced within his faith journey. The problem of evil is a significant challenge for many believers. Jersak advocates for a nonviolent interpretation of atonement. He believes the cross represents God's love rather than divine violence…
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Takeaways Transparency and clarity are essential in church communities, particularly when it comes to issues like LGBTQ inclusion. Churches should clearly communicate their theological stance and actively work towards creating an inclusive and welcoming environment for all. The concept of covenantal relationships, where individuals are bound togeth…
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Author and Teacher Sophfronia Scott reflects on the power of language to both destroy and mend the world, and then teaches a brilliant practice to help us see each other as we truly are. Both an inspiring and deeply practical episode. Show notes, links, and next steps at the Between Retreats Substack. Join us!…
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Take Away Ideas Deconstruction isn’t about losing faith, but about re-centering on Jesus. Doubt and curiosity are essential tools in questioning rigid religious structures. The power dynamics of church leadership need reevaluation; Christ-like leadership centers on humility and service. The shift from religious laws to virtues (like love, peace, an…
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After a podcast hiatus, Aaron shares a life update and invites us into a collaboration with Pastors, Priests and Guides called "Practices to Prevent a Civil War". In this divided, tumultuous season--especially approaching the November election--we are learning practices to form us into people who are less likely to participate in Civil War, and mor…
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Author, therapist, and priest Ian Morgan Cron helps us engage Practices to Prevent a Civil War through the lens of his upcoming book on the Twelves Steps. A fascinating and really insightful conversation. Show notes, links, and next steps are at the Between Retreats Substack.By Pastors, Priests and Guides
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takeaways Tom Rundel reinterprets the Book of James for modern understanding. Suffering is a common experience, not to be glorified. Spiritual bypassing dismisses the reality of suffering. Prayer should be an honest engagement with one's situation. Lament is a significant part of spiritual practice. Community support is crucial for those who are su…
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takeaways The current political and cultural moment in the United States is characterized by the erosion of trust in democracy and the weaponization of fear and anger. Apocalyptic language is used in political discourse to create a sense of urgency and to rally support, but it often hinders productive conversations and solutions. Economic realities…
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Dave Davis and David Katibah from The Telos Group join us to talk about October 7th, Gaza, and the widening violence in the middle east. Out of the realities on the ground, they appeal to diverse communities of American peacemakers to stand with both Palestinians and Israelis to sustain dignity, freedom, and security for all. And they offer Six Pri…
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n this episode of Non-Fundamentalist Bible Studies, Tom Rundel explores the end of chapter three and the beginning of chapter four of the book of James. He emphasizes the importance of understanding wisdom and knowledge in a non-weaponized context, encouraging listeners to seek genuine wisdom through a beautiful manner of living rather than through…
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Takeaways Mystics experience the divine in everyday life and see the holiness in others. Mystics can be both heavenly minded and earthly good, working for peace, justice, and the well-being of all people. Political discourse should involve empathy, understanding, and dialogue, rather than demonization and polarization. Finding common ground and hol…
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Justice advocate and author Shane Claiborne helps us engage our hearts and our hands in the needs of the country. Especially the poor and forgotten. After sharing a couple stories, Shane teaches a historic practice to help us remove the plank in our own eye before we attempt to remove the speck in our neighbor's eye. Join us at The Between Retreats…
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The book of James addresses the power of speech and its implications. Teachers in the church are held to a higher standard. Controlling the tongue is crucial for personal and communal integrity. Words can shape perceptions and influence actions. Righteousness is fundamentally linked to justice. Inconsistency in speech reflects deeper issues in the …
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Author Shauna Niequist invites us to stop scrolling and begin gathering. She reminds us about the power of the table and the necessity of being face to face with those we love and those we don't yet understand. A compelling and highly practical episode. Join us at The Between Retreats Substack for notes, links, and more.…
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Takeaways Caleb's upbringing in a conservative home shaped his early views on faith. His experience with neo-Nazi skinheads led to critical questioning of ideologies. The rise of American Christian nationalism has created a divide in churches. Many church members are influenced by external political narratives. Christian nationalism is a blend of p…
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Poet and Preacher Drew Jackson reflects on the apocalyptic times we live in and the calling of the American church while things crumble. To carry us through these days, he calls us toward hope and teaches a powerful breath prayer from Colossians 3. Join us at The Between Retreats Substack for notes, links, and more.…
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