A podcast from the tech team at Moonpig. We'll focus on technology, and how we support our business - from design, implementation, delivery and career growth perspectives.
…
continue reading
Tech Team At Moonpig Podcasts
This podcast features interviews of CTOs and other technical leadership figures and topics range from technology (AI, blockchain, cyber, DevOps, Web Architecture, etc.) to management (e.g. scaling, structuring teams, mentoring, technical recruiting, product etc.). Guests from leading tech companies share their best practices and knowledge. The goal is to support other CTOs on their journey through tech and engineering, inspire and allow a sneak-peek into other successful companies to underst ...
…
continue reading

1
#127 - Kelsey Hightower's Unfiltered Truths: 25 Years of Infrastructure, DevOps, and Retiring at 42
1:00:30
1:00:30
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:00:30Unfiltered lessons on infrastructure, career strategy, and the art of knowing when to stop. What does 25 years in tech teach you? Kelsey Hightower, a self-taught engineer who rose to become a Distinguished Engineer at Google and a key figure in the Kubernetes community, sits down with Tobi to share unfiltered insights from his extensive career and ā¦
…
continue reading

1
Episode 33 - Prototyping at Pace: Turning Ideas into Impact at Moonpig
30:57
30:57
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
30:57Join Richard and Leon on the Moonpig Tech Podcast as they explore the power of rapid prototyping with Max Church from the AI team. Discover how Max transformed a bold ideaāAI-generated stickersāinto a live feature in record time, using lightweight tools, smart iteration, and real user feedback. From building a working prototype in just one week to ā¦
…
continue reading

1
#126 - AI Transformation at Scale: Practical Adoption Across 150+ Engineers with Peter Gostev // Head of AI @ Moonpig
1:05:48
1:05:48
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:05:48Navigating AI hype versus implementation reality in large engineering organizations The AI transformation challenge isn't just technicalāit's organizational. Peter Gostev, Head of AI at Moonpig, discusses building practical AI capabilities in a 600-person company while navigating the gap between AI hype and implementation reality. From managing adoā¦
…
continue reading

1
#125 - Two CTO Dinosaurs vs. Today's Tech Hype with Raz Shuty // CTO @ auxmoney
1:03:15
1:03:15
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:03:15Unfiltered insights on microservices myths, cloud cost reality, and pragmatic technical leadership Two veteran CTOs tear down today's tech hype with brutal honesty and hard-won experience. Raz Schweiger-Shuty shares his controversial approach to technical leadership at auxmoney, where he stopped a microservices rewrite and focused on business outcoā¦
…
continue reading

1
Episode 32 - Designing for Humans: Inside Moonpigās User-Centric Mindset
28:13
28:13
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
28:13What does it really mean to build products that people actually want to use? In this episode of the Moonpig Tech Podcast, hosts Ariella and Rob sit down with Ben, Moonpigās Director of Product Design, to unpack what it takes to embed user-centric thinking into every corner of a business. From broken door handles to space-themed MRI scanners and hanā¦
…
continue reading

1
#124 - The Path to AGI: Inside poolsideās AI Model Factory for Code with Eiso Kant
1:03:56
1:03:56
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:03:56Building Human-Level AI for Code: Model Factories, RL at Scale, and Distributed Teams Technical Deep Dives: Poolsideās model factory: end-to-end automation from raw data to production models Scaling RL from code execution: 800,000+ containerized repos, millions of agent tasks Immutable versioning with Apache Iceberg for full traceability Distributeā¦
…
continue reading

1
#123 - From Nokia to AI-IoT: Engineering the Physical World with Bernd GroĆ // CEO @ Cumulocity
1:03:07
1:03:07
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:03:07Bridging operational technology and cloud architecture for industrial-scale systems The convergence of AI and IoT is reshaping how technical leaders approach industrial systems architecture. Bernd GroĆ, CEO and co-founder of Cumulocity, shares insights from building Germany's leading IoT platformāfrom its origins as a Nokia spin-off to becoming a cā¦
…
continue reading

1
Episode 31 - Platform Power: How Automation is Shaping Moonpigās Engineering Culture
37:39
37:39
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
37:39In this episode of the Moonpig Tech Podcast, hosts Sam and Leon sit down with Daniel Jeyes and Jake Smith to explore the evolution of platform engineering at Moonpig and the team's journey toward process automation. They dive into how the shift from traditional sysadmin tasks to infrastructure-as-code with Terraform has improved reliability, transpā¦
…
continue reading

1
#122 - Grid Control in Milliseconds: Engineering Energy Systems with Barbara Wittenberg // CTO @ 1KOMMA5°
1:01:14
1:01:14
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:01:14Real-time system architecture lessons from the edge of the energy transition Technical infrastructure enables the modern energy transition. Barbara Wittenberg, CTO at 1KOMMA5°, reveals the engineering challenges behind connecting and optimizing 40,000+ household energy assets while building a unified tech platform after acquiring 80+ companies acroā¦
…
continue reading

1
Episode 30 - Hacking for Inclusion: Making Moonpig More Accessible
16:14
16:14
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
16:14In this episode of the Moonpig Tech Podcast, host Ariella is joined by our new co-host Rob and guests Julia Castillo Trujillo and Ross Lockhart to discuss their recent hackathon focused on accessibility. The team shares their personal motivations and highlights the work they did to improve accessibility on the Moonpig websiteāreleasing eight impactā¦
…
continue reading

1
#121 - Canva's Playbook: Scaling Teams, Tech, and AI with Adam Schuck // Senior Engineering Director @ Canva
1:01:03
1:01:03
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:01:03Insights into hypergrowth, late-stage career frameworks, AI adoption, and the tech powering Canva's collaborative editor. In this episode, Tobi chats with Adam Schuck, Senior Engineering Director at Canva, a company that has scaled to over 5,000 employees, 2,000+ engineers, and 230 million MAUs while remaining profitable. Adam shares his journey thā¦
…
continue reading

1
#120 - AI's Singularity & Commoditization: Navigating Hype vs. Reality with Georg Zoeller // Co-Founder @ C4AIL
1:13:51
1:13:51
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:13:51Debunking AI hype, exploring security risks, and strategies for CTOs in the age of rapid change. In this episode, Tobi talks with Georg Zoeller, Co-Founder of the Centre for AI Leadership and mercenaries.ai, about the turbulent landscape of AI. Georg, with his background at Meta and deep expertise in AI strategy, cuts through the hype surrounding Aā¦
…
continue reading

1
#119 - Navigating Ambiguity and AI's Impact on Engineering feat. Ivan Kusalic // CTO @ Enpal
56:31
56:31
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
56:31Leading in ambiguous environments and the impact of AI on engineering practices In this episode, Tobi talks with Ivan Kusalic, CTO of Enpal, who leads a team of 250 engineers at one of Germany's leading solar energy companies. Ivan shares insights from his extensive technical leadership journey and his recent return to coding after seven years due ā¦
…
continue reading
In this episode of the Moonpig Tech Podcast, hosts Sam and Richard sit down with Principal Engineer Alexis Lowe to explore the intricacies of event-driven architecture (EDA) and how it's been implemented at Moonpig. Alexis dives deep into how eventsāsuch as order creation or user registrationāare used to decouple systems, improve scalability, and bā¦
…
continue reading

1
#118 - Radical Engineering Culture and High Bar Hiring feat. Stefan Richter // Founder & CTO @ freiheit.com technologies
1:02:51
1:02:51
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:02:51Ship Great Software Through Simplicity and Discipline Discover insights into building a high-performance engineering organization with Stefan Richter, founder of freiheit.com technologies. With 25+ years of experience delivering successful software projects for the Whoās Who of European businesses and industries, Stefan shares his philosophy of radā¦
…
continue reading

1
#117 - Navigating AI Trends with Dat Tran // Partner & CTO @ DATANOMIQ, VP AI/ML @ Beams Safety AI
1:08:42
1:08:42
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:08:42Tobi and Dat discuss AI's impact on technical leadership, tools, deep learning, and Europe's innovation scene, including practical use cases for AI agents. AI is moving faster than ever, and staying ahead of the curve is a challenge for every tech leader. In this episode, Dat Tran joins Tobi to break down whatās happening in the AI space, from cuttā¦
…
continue reading

1
#116 - Exploring Platform Engineering feat. Camille Fournier // CTO @ Open Athena & Author @ O'Reilly Media
1:03:04
1:03:04
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:03:04Platform Teams and DevOps Optimization: Insights from Camille Fournier on platform engineering, career growth, and CTO strategies for success. How do you create an effective platform team and optimize DevOps? Tobi interviews Camille Fournier about her career, technical insights, and best practices in platform engineering. Camille shares her journeyā¦
…
continue reading

1
115 - Exploring Growth and Compliance feat. Dennis Winter // CTO @ Bƶrse Stuttgart
1:02:08
1:02:08
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:02:08Scaling Tech in Regulated Industries: Engineering Growth with Security, Compliance, and Culture Ever wondered how regulated companies like stock exchanges handle tech growth? Dennis Winter (CTO @ Bƶrse Stuttgart) shares how to build engineering organizations in regulated environments. With experience from embedded systems to leading tech at Solarisā¦
…
continue reading

1
#114 - Building an SDK feat. Dr. Daniel Hauschildt // CPTO @ IMG.LY
41:06
41:06
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
41:06The Tech and Business Side of Building an SDK Get insight into the SDK business (and learn about cross-platform performance and developer marketing) with Dr. Daniel Hauschildt (MD & CPTO at IMG.LY). As a client-side offering (no servers!), IMG.LY needs to take extra steps to ensure reliability on all devices š±, platforms š» and browsers š. From crafā¦
…
continue reading

1
#113 - Faster Incident Response feat. Tim Armandpour // CTO @ PagerDuty
50:10
50:10
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
50:10Planning AND Practice: The Secret to Incident Response Plan and PRACTICE for better incident response with insights from Tim Armandpour, CTO of PagerDuty. Learn the secrets to resilience from the team that mitigated the impact of a major outageāhandling a 250% traffic surge while delivering on their SLA. Listen to find out: š ļø Why planning AND pracā¦
…
continue reading

1
#112 - Cross Functional Team Members feat. Daniel Bartholomae // CTO @ optilyz
49:10
49:10
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
49:10Cross-Functional Team Members: What, Why, How Find out about cross-functional team members with Daniel Bartholomae, CTO at optilyz (direct mail SaaS). At optilyz, team members wear multiple hatsāwhatever hats they need to own the product lifecycle. From product management and design to development and customer engagement, this model eliminates siloā¦
…
continue reading

1
#111 - Organising for Impact feat. Eric Bowman // CTO @ King
56:20
56:20
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
56:20Output ā Outcome ā Impact | Product + Tech | Adjacent Possibilities How do we actually organize people to consistently deliver value and enjoy the process? This, Eric Bowman (CTO @ King) says, is the core challenge facing any CTO. In this thought-provoking episode, Eric shares insights from his remarkable career in gaming (The Sims, King), e-commerā¦
…
continue reading

1
#110 - Developer Efficiency feat. Rebecca Murphey // Field CTO @ Swarmia & Co-Author of Build
53:29
53:29
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
53:29Aligning engineering with business outcomes, developer productivity and developer experience Become a more effective team in this CTO podcast featuring Rebecca Murphey, Field CTO of Swarmia and co-author of Build. From her years of experience working in the developer productivity organizations at Stripe and Indeed and now at Swarmia, Rebecca knows ā¦
…
continue reading

1
#109 - Cloud Cost Optimisation feat. Claire Fautsch // CTO @ Joblift
39:08
39:08
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
39:08From 100k to 30k: How Joblift slashed their monthly cloud bill Save Money on Cloud Costs with Claire Fautsch (CTO @ Joblift). Find out how the team at Joblift slashed monthly cloud costs from ā¬100K to ā¬30K without compromising performance.Listen to find out:š How to build dashboards š How to align cloud costs with business KPIsš¤ How to get the entiā¦
…
continue reading

1
#108 - Monitoring as Code feat.Hannes Lenke // CEO & Co-founder @ Checkly
1:02:43
1:02:43
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:02:43How DevOps has Changed QA Keep an eye on the latest trends in this CTO podcast episode featuring Hannes Lenke (CEO and Co-founder of Checkly). Hannes shares insights from over a decade of shaping the testing and monitoring landscape. From AI-powered mobile testing to cloud-based browser testing to synthetic monitoring, he has seen it all.Listen to ā¦
…
continue reading

1
#107 - Sustainability Over Hypergrowth feat.Tuomas Artman // CTO @ Linear
1:01:16
1:01:16
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:01:16Grow the business, not the headcount with insights from Tuomas Artman (CTO of Linear). Saying no to hypergrowth helped Linear succeed, but how did they do it? How did they build a high-quality product with a smaller team? Listen to find out: How to achieve quality products without increasing headcount š± Avoiding feature bloat: The pitfalls of custoā¦
…
continue reading

1
Episode 28 - Keep Calm And Carry On: Incident Management @ Moonpig
21:37
21:37
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
21:37Join Sam, Ariella, Richard Pearson, and Soph Yiangou as they explore the world of incident management, sharing insights and strategies for effectively handling unexpected challenges. Discover how we stay prepared and turn surprises into opportunities for growth.
…
continue reading

1
#106 - Meritocracy, Backend and Engineer-led Sales feat. Shyam Sankar // CTO @ Palantir Technologies
48:36
48:36
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
48:36Diversity in Meritocracy Through Rebellion Discover new ways to do things with Shyam Sankar, CTO of Palantir, who is working to deprecate backend development using their experience with 150 independent dev teams running a collection of 5,000 microservices. Yet this podcast is more than that (although I was blown away by the demo)āexpect great nuggeā¦
…
continue reading

1
#105 - Trust & Accountability in Remote Teams feat. Sabrina Farmer // CTO @ GitLab
51:08
51:08
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
51:08AI-driven DevSecOps Find out how to build trust and accountability in a fully remote team in this CTO podcast featuring Sabrina Farmer, CTO @ GitLab. You will also hear how Sabrina draws on her experience in AI, DevSecOps, and her 19 years at Google to rethink the developer experience.Listen to find out:How Gitlab's CEO Challenge encourages developā¦
…
continue reading

1
#104 - End-to-End Technical Independence feat. Alexander Matthey // CTO @ Adyen
59:00
59:00
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
59:00Independent. Direct. Security First Discover the benefits of end-to-end technical independence with Alexander Matthey, CTO of Adyen.Learn why Adyen cherishes its in-house strategy as Alexander shares how Adyenās extreme technical independence (no third-party vendors) enables efficiency in everything from libraries to security. Listen to find out: Sā¦
…
continue reading
Data Science Manager Francis Barrett joins Leon & Sam to explain what Data Science is, and how we use it at Moonpig.
…
continue reading

1
#103 - David Cramer // Co-Founder + CPO @ Sentry
53:28
53:28
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
53:28DevTool 101 and evolving role of co-founder Explore the evolution of both a product and the role of its co-founder in this CTO podcast featuring David Cramer (co-founder + CPO @ Sentry). You will discover the pros and cons of each stage in Sentry's journey (open source -> bootstrap -> VC) and why David's role evolved (CEO -> CTO -> CPO). Listen to ā¦
…
continue reading

1
#102 - Platform Engineering feat. Boyan Dimitrov // CTO @ SIXT
1:11:02
1:11:02
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:11:02Platform Engineering: Modularised, Standardised and Automated. Discover how to leverage platform engineering šļø for convenience, standardization, automation, and reduced cloud costs in this CTO podcast featuring Boyan Dimitrov (CTO @ SIXT). SIXT is a leading global mobility provider serving customers in over 100 countries worldwide. With 800 tech eā¦
…
continue reading

1
#101 - AI Revolution Roundtable feat. Jonas Andruilis (Aleph Alpha), Rasmus Rothe (Merantix) & Johannes Schaback (SumUp)
57:44
57:44
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
57:44Transformative AI, Build/Buy AI, Business Opportunities and more Get ready for the AI industrial revolution 𦸠in this CTO podcast episode featuring a roundtable of AI AllStars!So much is happening in AI, and you want to be part of it - that is why we asked Jonas Andrulis (Founder and CEO of Aleph Alpha), Rasmus Rothe (Co-founder of Merantix and itsā¦
…
continue reading
CPTO Georgie Smallwood joins us to discuss her role as a technology exec at Moonpig Links FYI: For Your Improvement - https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/847538
…
continue reading

1
#100 - Intuition over 'Data Driven' feat. Jason Fried // co-founder + CEO @ 37signals
58:12
58:12
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
58:12Intuition over Data-Driven, Hooks over Towel Rails and Profit over Revenue Trust your intuition, you will gain a lot from this CTO podcast featuring Jason Fried, co-founder and CEO of 37signals, a company known for having groundbreaking policies and products (Basecamp, HEY, Once, etc.). He is also bootstrapping hero and author of multiple books (Geā¦
…
continue reading

1
#99 -Team Topologies 101 feat. Matthew Skelton, co-author of Team Topologies
1:07:30
1:07:30
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:07:30A CTOās Primer to Value Flow, Continuous Stewardship and Decoupling in Time Lead a more humane and effective organisation with inspiration from Matthew Skelton, co-author of Team Topologies. Inspired by system designš , cyberneticsš¤ and neuroscience š§ , Team Topologies allows CTOs to structure their teams in a more humane way that reduces cognitive lā¦
…
continue reading

1
Episode 25 - Supporting Women in Tech with Cajigo
27:51
27:51
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
27:51Ariella and Richard are joined by the incredible Rav Bumbra - founder of Cajigo. Together, they'll be diving into Cajigo's mission to empower more women into tech and exploring how Moonpig supports this journey.
…
continue reading

1
#98 - Service Levels 101 feat. Alex Ewerlƶf - Sr Staff Engineer @ Volvo Cars & SRE Thought Leader
53:41
53:41
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
53:41SLIs,SLOs, SLAs - The WHY, WHAT, and HOW Embrace the Site Reliability Mindset with Alex Ewerlƶf, Sr. Staff Engineer @ Volvo Cars š and SRE thought leader. Understand how the different aspects of site reliability work together šŖ¢ and when you need a DevOps vs. Platform Team vs. SRE. Find out how to set your own Service Level Indicators (SLI), Serviceā¦
…
continue reading

1
#97 - From Maker to Multiplier feat. Pat Kua // CTO Coach and Founder of the Tech Lead Academy
49:42
49:42
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
49:42Leadership Unlearnings, Metrics, Mindshifts and Communication Letās become better Multipliers āļø in this CTO Podcast featuring Pat Kua, former CTO of N26 who by popular request now helps CTOs Level Up themselves and their teams. As a sought-after expert in helping ICs transition to leadership roles, Pat shares leadership gems with CTOs.Listen to fiā¦
…
continue reading

1
Episode 24 - Five tips to boost innovation
36:42
36:42
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
36:42Leon is joined by Principal Product Designer Hayley Cattlin-Weaver and Senior Software Engineer Jason Prouse who take us through five principles they formed during the build of one of Moonpig's recent innovative features.
…
continue reading

1
#96 - Radical Transparency feat. Charles Gorintin // CTO @ Alan & Co-Founding Advisor at Mistral
1:02:29
1:02:29
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:02:29Radical Transparency in Salaries, Decisions, and People Discover the power of radical transparencyš§ with Charles Gorintin, CTO of Alan (a French InsurTech) and founding force behind Mistral. He may work in a regulated space, but there is nothing typical about Alanās setup when it comes to internal matters. Public Salary Framework ā
Searchable Board ā¦
…
continue reading

1
#95 - Self-Efficacy and the journey from CTO to CPTO and Back feat. David Gebhardt // CTO @ mobile.de
55:28
55:28
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
55:28CPTOs, Timeboxing and Inbox Zero Become a better CTO/CPTO with these insights from David Gebhardt, CTO (and former CPTO) of mobile.de (Germanyās largest car vehicle marketplace).Originally the Head of Tech, David evolved into CPTO, eventually leading the 400-strong Product+Tech teams before evolving business needs led him to bring on a CPO and go bā¦
…
continue reading

1
#94 - Melanie Rieback // Co-founder & CEO at Radically Open Security
1:07:54
1:07:54
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:07:54Cybersecurity for CTOs in 2024 Letās hack cybersecurity in 2024 with Melanie Rieback, Co-founder & CEO of Radically Open Security, the worldās first not-for-profit cybersecurity consultancy with a focus on PenTestingš. Melanie is on a mission to fix cybersecurity consulting by putting people before profits and empowering internal teams āhow to fishā¦
…
continue reading

1
#93 - The Technical CTO + Readying for IPO feat. Allan Leinwand // CTO @ Webflow
52:54
52:54
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
52:54Leveraging Your Tech Knowledge as CTO: Staying Hands-On and Readying for IPO Embrace the technical side š§ of the CTO role with Allan Leinwand, CTO of Webflow š±ļø who has combined technical know-how with great products on every layer of the OSI Model: from setting up HPās first ethernet, CISCOās early networks, building the worldās first CDN at Digitā¦
…
continue reading

1
#92 - Manage yourself to better manage others feat. Johanna Rothman // The Pragmatic Manager
57:06
57:06
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
57:06Self Management for CTOs and other Managers Want to become a better manager? Then manage yourself better! From managing the time you spend managing, and all the way to managing how you give your team new tasks⦠Let's get real with Johanna Rothman, whom they donāt call the Pragmatic Manager for nothing. You will love her straight-talking approach toā¦
…
continue reading

1
#91 - Autonomous Teams: Why, How and Who with Andy Walker // Former Senior Tech Leader @ Skyscanner + Google
46:58
46:58
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
46:58Autonomy, Motivation and Purpose Empower your team with the right type of autonomy š as we define the balance in this CTO podcast with Andy Walker, who has years of experience leadings teams at Skyscanner and Google. After 30 years in tech, Andy finally has the time to share what his hard won insights about tech leadership. You will enjoy his nuancā¦
…
continue reading
Join Alex & Ava as they take you on the journey of Moonpig's first AI powered feature. From hackathon idea to multilingual implementation, discover how we use AI to help our customers craft personalised messages for their cards, and what we learnt along the way.
…
continue reading

1
#90 - Bob Moesta // Co-Architect of the "Jobs to Be Done" Theory
46:34
46:34
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
46:34Product Discovery for Engineers (and CTOs) Invest your engineering resources better by truly understanding the core problem your product needs to solve with this CTO podcast featuring Bob Moesta, co-architect of the Jobs to be Done Theory, who has developed and launched over 3500 products. As an engineer-turned-product-guru, Bobās explanation of Prā¦
…
continue reading

1
#89 - Melissa Perri // Author of "Escaping the Build Trap" and "Product Operations"
1:07:58
1:07:58
Play later
Play later
Lists
Like
Liked
1:07:58CTOs Guide to Product Strategy and ProductOps Craft the ideal product strategy in this CTO podcast episode with Melissa Perri, author of āEscaping the Build Trapā and āProduct Operationsā.Find out how to become truly product-led: from your strategy to your metrics to your tooling. Listen to find out: How to balance qualitative š and quantitative daā¦
…
continue reading