Best Robodebt Podcasts (2025)

1
The Vanstone Files: Unpacking Ministerial Power 44:41

8d ago44:41

44:41

In a wide ranging discussion, Alison, Caroline and Danielle come together to discuss the gems from the Amanda Vanstone interview, which examined how power, responsibility and decision-making played out at the top of government during her two decades as a federal minister. Vanstone's approach to being a minister - asking questions until understandin…

1
The Hon Amanda Vanstone AO - Inside the Westminster Machine 1:11:40

24d ago1:11:40

1:11:40

Former Senator Amanda Vanstone offers a masterclass in ministerial leadership, delivering sharp insights from her 21-year political career that are as relevant today as they were during her time in Prime Minister Howard's Cabinet. Cutting through bureaucratic excuses with remarkable clarity, she reveals how effective ministers must take full respon…

1
DOGE or GROSS (Getting Rid of Stupid Stuff) 😩: the touchy subject of efficiency in the public service 59:00

1M ago59:00

59:00

Efficiency is in the news ... but what does it mean? How should public servants work on improving efficiency? Should we be focused on system reform, ending whole entitlements, or nibbling at the edges? How to know what kind of budget savings task you are in - deep restructuring or a cyclical contraction / expansion? Is front line v back office a he…

1
Picking the Scab of Recruitment - Part 2 'The Employer' 37:12

2M ago37:12

37:12

Surfing a wave of listener feelings about this topic, Danielle takes us through the experience of public service recruitment from the other side. Danielle and Alison argue about the merits of requiring 'in house' recruitment before externally advertising positions The role that conservative (perhaps inexpert??) local budget management plays in driv…

1
🗳️ Election special 🗳️ Caretaker conventions, IGBs and some 🥳 vox pops 🥳 51:05

2M ago51:05

51:05

The starter's gun has gone on Australia's national elections for 2025 and Parliament has been prorogued. In this episode, former head of Cabinet Office and keeper of the Caretaker Conventions, Alison answers Caroline and Danielle's increasingly pointed questions, and we end with arguing about the importance of formatting. Stay tuned to the end for …

1
Picking the Scab of Recruitment - Part 1 'The Applicant' 40:53

3M ago40:53

40:53

Drawing on overwhelming feedback from our listeners, in this episode we unpack the experience of being recruited into the public sector (or ghosted along the way). Danielle takes us through What goes in Role Descriptions (hint: it shouldn't be slabs of legislation) The madness of defined requirements like 'driving' and 'interstate travel' (and whet…

1
Oakden aged care scandal part 3 - “Boss on the floor” … or, how bad things stayed secret 35:02

3M ago35:02

35:02

How did the abuse at Oakden remain hidden for so long? And what finally brought it to light? In this episode we discuss: why families might not complain how small, isolated outposts can hide terrible things the importance of following up on things that don’t feel quite right. Intro grab from the RN Background Briefing episode A Failure to Care: The…

1
REDUX - What the NACC is going on? Updates on Robodebt and the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) 34:17

3M ago34:17

34:17

In light of this week's decision that the NACC will pursue investigations into six public officials, we thought we would repost this episode from December 2024 explaining why the NACC's original decision to take no further action needed to be revisited, with a little explainer up front on the latest news. You can find out more about the NACC's anno…

1
Oakden aged care scandal part 2 - there’s no $$$ in limbo 45:10

4M ago45:10

45:10

For over a decade, the state government vacillated about whether or not to privatise the Oakden Older Persons Mental Health Facility. Once the 2007 accreditation crisis had passed, however, it never reached the top of the ‘to do’ list. Meanwhile, investment in facilities and staffing were endlessly postponed pending a decision. In this episode, we …

1
Oakden aged care scandal part 1 - good in a crisis (...bad on the follow through) 35:15

4M ago35:15

35:15

We return for 2025 with a series on the Oakden Older Persons Mental Health Facility, an SA Government run facility whose scandalous conditions and institutionalised elder abuse were exposed in 2017, prompting (among other things) a Commonwealth Royal Commission. In this episode, we unpack a missed opportunity in 2007 to move Oakden from a mid-twent…

1
Ask a Secretary! Mike Kaiser (former) head of the Department of Premier and Cabinet (Qld) 41:34

5M ago41:34

41:34

What do Secretaries really think when junior staff ask for career advice? Why are silos so impermeable? And should Christmas really be cancelled? Join Danielle and Caroline as they take Mike through listener questions. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time job…

1
Mike Kaiser, former DG of Department of Premier and Cabinet (Qld) 48:36

5M ago48:36

48:36

Mike Kaiser, recently departed head of the Queensland Public Service, joins us to chat about the interface between political offices and the public service, lessons from robodebt, why delivery is everything in government and the secret of leadership. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in ou…

1
The State of the Service - drawing the threads from Coombs to Thodey to where we are now 34:26

6M ago34:26

34:26

Danielle unpacks the recently released APS State of the Service, with a look over our should at where we’ve come from - from the 1976 Coombs Royal Commission on Australian Government Administration, to the 2019 Thodey Review of the APS. How are women, First Nations and people with disability going in the APS? What about class? Now for some appropri…

1
What the NACC is going on? Updates on Robodebt and the National Anti-Corruption Commission 32:35

6M ago32:35

32:35

Keeping track of the National Anti-Corruption Commission and Robodebt is tricky - first there's no investigation, then there's some kind of review, then there's a search for an eminent person.... In this episode, we talk about where things are at, managing conflicts of interest, and whether corruption always involves brown paper bags. For Rick Mort…

1
Ray Hilton on AI & Deep Tech

7M ago

—

A fantastic conversation with Ray Hilton. “on its own, like data is relatively inert and doesn’t really have much value – like the value comes from what you do with it and how you interpret it. And it can obviously be interpreted in many different ways. “ “It’s not just the fact you’ve identified these people.… Continue reading Ray Hilton on AI…

1
Mr Bates v Post Office part 8 - ‘The One Where The Report is a Slide Deck’ 41:27

7M ago41:27

41:27

Post Office’s internal inquiries never got to the bottom of the situation. Here we unpack how to choose an investigator, getting the information to the person, and what do with a report. Opening grab from Sir Anthony Hooper, independent chair of Horizon mediation scheme. Subsequent grab from Mr Beer KC and Paula Vennels, former Post Office Limited …

1
Mr Bates v Post Office part 7 - ‘The One Where The Inquiries Go Nowhere’ 35:01

7M ago35:01

35:01

Post Office leadership commissioned at least 6 different investigations of varying degrees of independence and rigor into complaints about Horizon after 2010. And yet none of them got to the truth. In the next two episodes, we unpack what not to do when setting up inquiries and investigations. Opening grab from Mr Beer KC and Alice Perkins, former …

1
TWT Ask Us Anything! Part 2 - culture and integrity agencies 31:13

8M ago31:13

31:13

Another great round of questions, thanks! Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Sa…

1
TWT Ask Us Anything! Part 1 - trust in government, and how we organise ourselves 29:33

8M ago29:33

29:33

Thanks for the questions folks! Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Pap…

1
Finally, the APSC has published its findings about Robodebt: what did they find, and where to from here? 47:00

9M ago47:00

47:00

The Australian Public Service Commission has released the findings of its Centralised Code of Conduct Inquiry into Robodebt. Outro grab from The West Wing, Season 3, Episode 10. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t gu…

1
Mr Bates v Post Office part 6 - information dead ends and accountability sinks 41:48

10M ago41:48

41:48

In this episode, we look at why Post Office kept prosecuting Sub Post Masters through the lens of Dan Davies' analysis in his new book The Unaccountability Machine. Opening grab from Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting) and Alisdair Cameron, CFO and former interim CE of Post Office Ltd. Subsequent grab from Mr Blake KC (Counsel Assisting) and Graham Bran…

1
Mr Bates v Post Office part 5 - prosecuting the innocent 42:33

10M ago42:33

42:33

A massive power imbalance, everyone doing the narrowest version of their jobs, and an overriding culture that assumed postmasters were thieves. These are just some of the ways Post Office ended up prosecuting postmasters for shortfalls that existed only on the computer. Opening grab from Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting) and Rob Wilson, former Head of…

1
The Hon John Hill, on being a Minister 1:02:53

11M ago1:02:53

1:02:53

In this episode, former state Minister for Health and the Arts (among others) the Hon John Hill, shares his insights into what Ministers want - and what they need - from the public service. You can buy his book ‘On being a Minister’ here - and if you’re brave, share with your Minister! Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While w…

1
Dr Melissa Humphries on statistics, social media, and many many things!

11M ago

—

"Every decision that we make, whether we're thinking about climate change, poverty, you know happiness, agriculture... how do we feed everyone, how do we clothe them, all of that is underpinned by data and mathematics.By Dr Linda McIver, Australian Data Science Education Institute

1
Andrew Podger AO: Is Thodey public sector reform on Steroids or Valium? 1:00:38

12M ago1:00:38

1:00:38

In this second interview with former Commonwealth Secretary and Australian Public Service Commissioner Andrew Podger AO, Danielle gets to chat about The pros and cons of bringing all service delivery together in a single agency The valuing of operational expertise v policy leadership The role of portfolio budget practices in driving Robodebt Cultur…

1
Andrew Podger AO: the induction, tenure and bravery of Secretaries 1:00:02

12M ago1:00:02

1:00:02

With a decade as a Commonwealth Secretary, and two more as Australian Public Service Commissioner, it is no surprise Robodebt Royal Commissioner Holmes turned to Andrew Podger AO for expert advice on the operation of the public service. In this episode, Danielle talks to Andrew about the impact that granting tenure could have on the quality of advi…

1
The Essendon Footy Club supplements scandal (part 3): regulation in a changing world 36:52

1y ago36:52

36:52

What does the community want more - every last transgressor to be punished, or government to keep out of their business? How can regulators keep pace with changing community expectations about what is ‘appropriate’ - and, indeed, what is a workplace? What is a regulator to do when you’re facing these issues in the full glare of media scrutiny? In t…

1
The Essendon Footy Club supplements scandal (part 2): what’s it like to investigate Australia’s biggest sports codes? 40:59

1y ago40:59

40:59

In episode two of this mini-series, we pick up the story of the Essendon supplements scandal from the perspective of the investigators. In this story we hear how ASADA ends up in the middle of a media fire storm, with inadequate regulatory powers and biopharmaceutical technology racing ahead. But is it really a matter for ASADA at all? Is this an a…

1
The Royal Commission we should have? The 2013 Essendon Football Club supplements scandal 34:00

1y ago34:00

34:00

“Lack of good governance is why good people did bad things at Essendon Football Club”. So says Lindsay Tanner, former Minister for Finance, and President of the Essendon Football Club from 2015. In this mini-series, Caroline tries to convince us there are lessons for public servants from the Essendon Football Club supplement scandal in 2013. In thi…

1
Sue Vardon AO, inaugural CE of Centrelink: On learning while in the job 37:40

1y ago37:40

37:40

In the second of two follow ups to her interview at the end of 2023, Sue Vardon dives deep on her commitment to training Centrelink staff, including the establishment of an in-house Registered Training Organisation (RTO). Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time …

1
Andrew Leigh on Data & Politics

1y ago

—

"The rise of populism has been substantial across the advanced world, indeed across developing countries as well. So those of us who believe in data need to be strong proponents of the publication of those data even when it produces results that make us uncomfortable.By Dr Linda McIver, Australian Data Science Education Institute

1
Sue Vardon AO, inaugural CE of Centrelink: On lawyers 27:08

1y ago27:08

27:08

In the first of two follow ups to her interview at the end of 2023, Sue Vardon returns to share her thoughts on the dangers for Senior Executives who outsource considerations of legality to the lawyers. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allo…

1
'Do it now, get it right later': payment (in)accuracy in Centrelink - setting the stage for Robodebt 31:20

1y ago31:20

31:20

Centrelink is not alone in having a push and pull between the investment required to get it right up front, versus the convenience of fixing things up later. We discuss the old chestnut 'fast, cheap, good - pick two' , and the less obvious costs of running lean - whether in pandemic preparedness, strategic policy capacity, workforce burnout. Finall…

1
Michael Brand, on the Science of Data Science

1+ y ago

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"We do not teach people that making mistakes is not just right, but it's the only way of learning. It's the only way of becoming better."Honestly, I want to turn this whole episode into pull quotes! Go listen!By Dr Linda McIver, Australian Data Science Education Institute

1
Mr Bates v Post Office part 4 - the roll out of Horizon 33:05

1+ y ago33:05

33:05

If you knew your IT system was unreliable, wouldn't you keep some manual checks to make sure it doesn't go wrong? Not if you're Post Office, and desperately looking for savings. Especially if you've just lost your biggest revenue source, in the form of the Benefits Agency and the cash in the tills it provides. In the final episode of our first (but…

1
Mr Bates v Post Office part 3 - accepting a lemon 28:14

1+ y ago28:14

28:14

Despite hundreds of technical issues and continuing delays in meeting quality requirements, in January 2000, Post Office Board accepted the Horizon IT system as its own. In this episode, we discuss how hard it is to say 'stop' in the middle of a game of whack-a-mole of problem fixing, especially when there are institutional incentives to keep going…

1
Mr Bates v Post Office part 2 - a very poor procurement 31:55

1+ y ago31:55

31:55

Why was the Post Office's Horizon IT system so error ridden in the first place? And is the false conviction of nearly 1000 postmasters really Tony Blair's fault in the end? (Spoiler alert: probably not.) In this episode, Caroline takes us through why Horizon was probably doomed from the start, with Post Office and the Benefits Agency shackled toget…

1
Mr Bates v Post Office - shades of Robodebt? 38:19

1+ y ago38:19

38:19

Season 2 kicks off with a deeper look at the British Post Office fiasco. Gaslighting critics, false confessions, aggressive litigation tactics, challenges with redress, and no accountability from senior leaders - sound familiar? Nick Wallis BBC4 podcast The Great Post Office Trial Alison's recommended listening re psychological safety, Adam Grant's…

1
Bonus episode: Sue Vardon AO - inaugural CE of Centrelink (1997-2004) 1:31:59

1+ y ago1:31:59

1:31:59

In this special holiday bonus, inaugural CE of Centrelink Sue Vardon AO joins Danielle and Caroline to talk through her submission to the Robodebt Royal Commission. Her submission outlines the changes in Centrelink that made Robodebt possible - as well as the things that have stayed the same. She also takes us through her career, from being the onl…

1
Grant Ennis

1+ y ago

—

"So like while we would never believe that if we saw a stone rolling down a mountain, that if we all just stared at it and willed it back up the hill, it would do that, we do tend to believe that if we all individually do our part for the environment or ask people to just individually act that because people want that to be so and want that to work…

1
Fiona Tweedie on Data Governance

1+ y ago

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Fiona Tweedie: data governance is not a topic that gets a lot of love. people yeah switch off when they hear it, but it really is the makes a huge amount of difference to what you're able to do with data (and not just avoiding big regulator fines)By Dr Linda McIver, Australian Data Science Education Institute

1
16. Taking responsibility - lessons from Robodebt 47:37

1+ y ago47:37

47:37

Much of the evidence heard by the Royal Commission was from people who didn't know what was happening - either because they were too junior to have all the information, or, if they were senior, too busy to have stopped and asked the question. Provoked by Dr Darren O'Donovan, in this episode we unpack practical steps that create organisations that c…

1
Mark Gray on Physics, Supercomputing, Robodebt, and the future of medicine

1+ y ago

—

Mark Gray on technology. "people have developed a kind of implicit trust in the way that technology works. And I think partly it's because they don't actually understand how it works. And so, they just choose to trust it. I mean, I've got a lot of experience in programming. ...I would not trust a computer-driven car to not hurt me."…

1
Bonus Episode: Dr Darren O'Donovon on centering the victims of Robodebt, the fragmentation of knowledge and accountability, and the creation of moral discomfort 1:51:49

1+ y ago1:51:49

1:51:49

In this in-depth and wide-ranging interview, Dr Darren O'Donovan, Senior Lecturer at La Trobe University Law School, reflects on what it was like being on the outside looking in at Robodebt. *This was recorded before the release of the Government's response to the Royal Commission.* Some references from the interview include: Frank Kafka Before the…

1
15. Behavioural insights in Robodebt: at last, an argument! 26:37

1+ y ago26:37

26:37

In this episode, Danielle and Alison bring the conflict on their views of behavioural insights. Danielle thinks it's a revelation that government started thinking about its customers and what works for them. Alison thinks it's oversold, and not always deployed in the interests of the people. Caroline wonders if we can all just get along. Ultimately…

1
Kate Carruthers on Data Governance and the people side of data

1+ y ago

—

"Behind every business problem is a human being with some kind of need. And if we understand that, we can solve it and increasingly now every business is a data driven business, but you can't let data be the only thing you need to, we need to focus in on the human problems we're trying to solve. And that's probably one of the things that is making …

1
14. The Grinch that stole Christmas 36:37

1+ y ago36:37

36:37

Christmas leave plays an outsize role in Robodebt. Danielle takes us through some of the questions raised about Christmas leave, including who holds the can when people are on leave, and how 'hovering' while you're on leave can confuse and disempower. She also makes a case that government should never, ever shut down over Christmas, because our wor…

1
13. Pink Batts and Robodebt - lessons not learned 29:18

1+ y ago29:18

29:18

In September 2014, at the very moment DHS invents Robodebt, the APS receives a frank assessment of its limitations in the form of the Final Report Home Insulation Program Royal Commission. In this episode, a review of the 'pink batts' Royal Commission report shows the key failings that recur. Why is it so hard as a public servant to say 'we can't d…

1
Larene Le Gassick on Data and Accessibility

1+ y ago

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A truly thought provoking conversation about data and accessibility with an amazing Software Engineer and Accessibility Expert & Advocate, Larene Le Gassick. "The most popular statistic that is shared about disability is that, you know, if you don't consider accessibility in the web or in mobile apps, you are excluding at least 20% of folks who mig…

1
12. Robodebt as algorithm (part 3) - Jurassic Park ICT and AI 31:02

2y ago31:02

31:02

In our final episode on the algorithmic nature of Robodebt, we tackle the implications of algorithms being commercial in confidence property of third party providers, legacy ICT systems, plus recognise we need to lean in to understanding AI and how it works. We do a second mini-dive into the Great British Post Office scandal - this time into the sy…

Podcasts Worth a Listen

Robodebt Podcasts

Podcasts Worth a Listen