Host Debra Rienstra interviews a different guest each week, exploring the idea of refugia from a variety of perspectives, from biology to worship to politics. Refugia are places of shelter where life endures in times of crisis. We’re exploring what it means for people of faith to be people of refugia. refugianewsletter.substack.com
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Debra Rienstra Podcasts
Sharing stories of people who have found a better way of understanding the harmony between science and Christian faith.
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200. Seeking Wholeness in a Fractured World
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A season of reflection led us back into years of past conversations, where unexpected threads began to intertwine. In this episode, we bring those threads into conversation with each other—voices like Makoto Fujimura, Praveen Sethupathy, Krista Tippett, Mike McHargue, and Bill Newsome—to explore how both science and faith gesture toward wholeness i…
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Jim and Colin report from Belém, Brazil and the halls of COP30.By BioLogos
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In a world that has sometimes been called “disenchanted,” we have to ask, does science really strip the world of mystery—or might science actually awaken us to something deeper? Sociologist Brandon Vaidyanathan has been exploring this question through his research on spiritual yearning among scientists, revealing that even in secular contexts, the …
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Our final episode of Season 4! This week, we travel to Hawaii with a whole troop of good people to visit some remarkable refugia spaces near Kaneohe Bay on Oahu. This episode, produced by Colin Hoogerwerf and Jim Stump, first aired on the Language of God podcast in April of 2025. To learn more about the Language of God podcast, visit their website …
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Christina Bagaglio Slentz is Associate Director for Creation Care for the Catholic Diocese of San Diego. Learn about how her diocese prioritizes climate action here. In this episode, we often refer to Pope Francis’ encyclical Laudato si’ and the ways that faith communities are living out its stated goals. We also discuss the theme “seeds of peace a…
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You might think of ferns—if you think of them much at all—as the unassuming and understated members of the plant world. What could they teach us about philosophy or theology or wonder? It turns out quite a lot. When we explore that strange world of fern reproduction and learn about the two life phases of ferns it brings up questions about identity …
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As a lay leader of Traverse City Presbyterian Church, Linda Racine and a team of enthusiastic congregants prompted her church to start on a journey toward effective climate action. You can read about their commitment to creation care and learn about their 3 bright ideas for reducing carbon emissions in this congregation-led video. Traverse City Pre…
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Elaine Heath is the abbess of Spring Forest, a new monastic community in Hillsborough, North Carolina. Spring Forest centers around communal prayer and meals, a vibrant farm, refugee support, and other ministries you can read about here. You can learn more about Elaine’s work as an author and speaker on her website, or in articles like this one fro…
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197. Rebecca Copeland | Wicked Problems and Unoriginal Sin
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Theologian Rebecca Copeland joins Jim Stump to talk about how we think about sin in a world full of wicked problems—complex, interconnected issues like climate change, inequality, and mistrust in science. Our usual theological categories often fall short: sin as personal moral failure doesn’t capture the systemic nature of these problems, and sin a…
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Father Pete Nunally is the founder of Water and Wilderness Church, a Washington DC-based outdoor church and watershed community. You can read more about the model of Water and Wilderness Church here. Father Pete is a passionate and well-spoken advocate on his social media pages and other forums, as in this interview with Creation Justice Ministries…
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Doug Kaufman directs the Anabaptist Climate Collaborative, an organization that leads climate justice initiatives from an Anabaptist faith perspective. Doug and his team support Mennonite and other Anabaptist churches, helping to build networks, train leaders, and empower climate-related initiatives. Doug describes environmental work as a form of p…
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108. Debra Rienstra | The Discipline of Hope
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Our best scientific models make it clear that society needs a big change at a global scale in order to limit irreversible damage—what good can individual actions and attitudes do in the face of this immense problem? Today’s guest, Debra Rienstra, argues that the right relationship with the Earth can actually make all the difference and that new wor…
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Dave Celesky founded called Redeem MI Land, a nonprofit organization inspiring communities of faith in Michigan to invest personally in land restoration projects. Dave describes how his home church, Unity Reformed in Norton Shores, Michigan, has supported the very first Redeem MI Land project, creating a prototype for other communities to follow. D…
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In this episode, Rev. Dr. Heber Brown, founder of the Black Church Food Security Network, describes how experimenting with one small church garden led to connections with other churches and then with farmers and eventually to a transformed ecosystem—in this case, a food shed. This inspiring refugia story weaves through health justice, food security…
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Ticks are among the most detested creatures in all of nature—but what happens when we look closer? In this Cool Creatures episode, Colin follows Calvin University professor Will Miller and some of his students into the field as they study ticks and the diseases they carry. As we explore ticks we find ourselves asking questions about public health, …
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Welcome to the first episode of Season 4! I’m so glad to share with you this delightful episode about a group of terrific Lutheran folks who exemplify joyful lay leadership and getting a whole congregation on board on behalf of climate action. Many thanks to Judy Hinck and to the lively group of Mount Olive members who spent an afternoon with me an…
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Join us for another season of the Refugia Podcast, with eight new episodes (plus a bonus!) releasing weekly starting September 14. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit refugianewsletter.substack.comBy Debra Rienstra
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195. Rob Dunn & Aminah Bradford | The Spirituality of Paying Attention
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What happens when a theologian and an evolutionary biologist walk into a lab together—one asking questions about God through the strange world of microbes, the other studying the tiny ecosystems in our armpits and sourdough starters? In this episode, we hear the answer through the story of Aminah Al-Attas Bradford, a theologian who found herself re…
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194. Sy Garte | Life’s Deeper Logic
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Far from the old picture of life as a mindless, mechanical process, new research is showing that even the simplest organisms—like bacteria—exhibit signs of purpose, agency, and decision-making. Biologist and author Sy Garte returns to Language of God to talk about how this might be a pointer to God. Following from his new book, Beyond Evolution: Ho…
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193. Science is Good | Wisdom, Stewardship, & Mercy in Three Stories
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Born out of a cultural moment of growing distrust in science, BioLogos’ Science is Good initiative explores how Christians can be a voice for the goodness of science. The episode connects the three parables of Matthew 25—about wisdom, stewardship, and mercy—with the work of three scientists whose careers exemplify these virtues. Epidemiologist Emil…
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192. Dorothy Boorse | The Eyes of Flies are like Jewels
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Dorothy Boorse describes herself as a child who used to be caught up looking at ants and other small and overlooked things. Later microscopes enhanced the possibilities of her attention. She followed science as it revealed its beauty to her but science also became a tool to help solve problems, to promote health and to improve the lives of people. …
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191. A Tale of Two Conflicts | Scopes, Teilhard, and 100 Years of Hindsight
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In July of 1925, two significant dramas unfolded on different continents—the Scopes “Monkey” Trial in Tennessee and the censure of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin in France— shaping the enduring conversation between science and faith. On the surface, these 1925 events couldn't be more different – one a public courtroom showdown, the other a hushed eccle…
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190. Jay Butler | The Ministry of Public Health
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Dr. Jay Butler is an infectious disease physician, epidemiologist, and former Deputy Director for Infectious Diseases at the CDC. We had the joy of hosting Dr Butler in the BioLogos offices recently where we shared his perspective on public health as a ministry, discussing his career journey from the CDC to working with Alaska Native communities. H…
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189. Ancient Humans | Becoming Spiritual (Neolithic)
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From the earliest bipedal ancestors to the dawn of spiritual awareness, we delve into the archaeological, anthropological, and theological questions surrounding our shared past. Join us over two episodes as we uncover the blurred lines between ancient hominins and modern humans, and ponder the moments that shaped our anatomy, behavior, and spirit. …
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188. Ancient Humans | Becoming Ourselves (Paleolithic)
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From the earliest bipedal ancestors to the dawn of spiritual awareness, we delve into the archaeological, anthropological, and theological questions surrounding our shared past. Join us over two episodes as we uncover the blurred lines between ancient hominins and modern humans, and ponder the moments that shaped our anatomy, behavior, and spirit. …
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187. Francis Collins & Kristine Torjesen | Science is Good
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Francis Collins, founder of BioLogos, and Kristine Torjesen, the new President and CEO, are deeply invested in the power of science to do good in the world. Yet, they observe with concern a growing distrust in science within our technologically advanced society. In this conversation, they share profound personal stories of how scientific breakthrou…
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134. Mónica Guzmán | The Gift of Curiosity
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In a world of increasing division, Monica Guzman offers advice for approaching conversation with curiosity. When we attempt to understand those who we disagree with, instead of merely attempting to change their beliefs, we are able to see people more fully and to even learn more about our own beliefs and ideas. Learn more about Monica and her book,…
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186. Alan Lightman | Falling into Infinity
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Alan Lightman is a theoretical physicist and has always seen the world as a place governed by unbreakable laws. But those laws never did a very good job explaining some of the most important moments of his life, moments when he felt a profound connection to the world. A journey to understand some of those transcendent moments has opened his appreci…
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185. Science and the Resurrection Accounts
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How do science-minded Christians make sense of the resurrection? This Easter season, Jim Stump tackles that question. After hearing the Gospel accounts read by listeners and staff, he examines some of the differences in the Biblical accounts and considers how we might understand the story as a whole. Then he brings his expertise in the philosophy o…
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184. Kipuka to Kipuka | Islands of Life, Faith and Restoration
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Life has a way of persisting through ecological disturbance in small protected places and then radiating outward. In Hawaii, those places are called “kipukas.” But biological life is not the only thing that can grow and thrive in the refuge of a kipuka. In this episode we hear the story of three places where people are caring for the land. At the b…
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