Best ASIC Talks Podcasts (2025)

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EP 138: Talking GPU Depreciation, OCP Takeaways 51:24

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3d ago51:24

51:24

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the recent industry discussion (confusion?) on GPU depreciation. Jay Goldberg was also at OCP this week and they disucss takeaways from the networking show related to AI compute and AI datacenter.By Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg

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EP 137: OpenAI + AMD, Intel Tech Touch, QCOM buys Arduino 48:20

13d ago48:20

48:20

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the recent partnership between OpenAI and AMD, exploring its implications for the AI compute landscape. They delve into the competitive dynamics between AMD and NVIDIA, OpenAI's ambitions to become a hyperscaler, and the financial challenges associated with massive AI infrastructure investments.…

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EP 136: WE DON'T HAVE THE POWER! 47:34

17d ago47:34

47:34

By Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg

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EP 135: Talking Semiconductor Recruiting 42:08

25d ago42:08

42:08

In this conversation, Jay Goldberg and Michael Cunningham discuss the evolving landscape of semiconductor recruitment, focusing on macro trends, the impact of AI, and the challenges of reshoring manufacturing. They explore the skills in demand, the dynamics of the job market, and provide valuable advice for both entry-level engineers and senior dir…

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EP 135: INTEL AND NVIDIA!! Meta Connect and Ray Ban Display, Watch Huawei/China 45:39

1M ago45:39

45:39

On this week’s episode of The Circuit, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg break down the surprising new partnership between NVIDIA and Intel, including a $5B investment and plans for co-developed CPU–GPU systems for data centers and PCs. They explore what this means for x86 in AI racks, AMD’s competitive position, and why Intel’s silence on Foundry raise…

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EP 134: Apple iPhones and Tensor Cores, Synopsis Earnings, Hock's Comments at Goldman 1:03:34

1M ago1:03:34

1:03:34

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the recent Apple iPhone launch event, highlighting the innovations in the iPhone Air and Apple's semiconductor strategy. They delve into Synopsys's disappointing earnings report and the subsequent market reactions, as well as Broadcom's position in the semiconductor landscape. The conversation a…

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EP 133: Broadcom Earnings, More on ASICS vs. GPUs, Google Selling TPUs? 43:46

2M ago43:46

43:46

Ben and Jay unpack why Broadcom’s “fourth customer” (~$10B) custom-ASIC win reset sentiment even after a modest beat/raise, and how that squares with hyperscalers second-sourcing away from NVIDIA in the near term. They frame the true battleground as networking—Ethernet’s ubiquity vs. NVLink’s tight integration—then differentiate GPUs’ performance-p…

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EP 132: NVIDIA Earnings + Ben's Thesis Time and Those Lumpy ASICs 54:59

2M ago54:59

54:59

In this conversation, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the recent earnings reports of Nvidia and Marvell, focusing on the implications for the AI market and the challenges posed by geopolitical factors, particularly regarding China. They analyze Nvidia's growth projections, the complexities of ASICs, and the competitive landscape for AI servers…

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EP 132: Offical Gov. Stake in Intel, NVIDIA's New Scale Across Fabric, NVIDIA Earnings Preview 47:33

2M ago47:33

47:33

In this conversation, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the recent government investment in Intel, its implications for the semiconductor industry, and the competitive landscape of Nvidia's new technology. They explore the future of Intel, the challenges it faces in securing customers, and the significance of Nvidia's Spectrum XGS Ethernet annou…

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EP 131: NVIDIA/AMD Export Tax Unconstitutional? AMAT Earnings, Talking NeoClouds, Another Week for Intel! 45:31

2M ago45:31

45:31

In this conversation, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss various topics related to the semiconductor industry, including the implications of new regulations on companies like AMD and Nvidia, the challenges faced by cloud computing providers, the market dynamics affecting Applied Materials, and the potential government involvement in Intel's futur…

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EP 130: AMD Earnings Insights, AI Networking The New (not so new) Hot Segment, GPT 5! 50:22

3M ago50:22

50:22

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the latest earnings from AMD, highlighting their strong performance amidst market fluctuations and concerns about competition in the AI space. They delve into the growing importance of AI networking solutions and the recent release of OpenAI's open-source models, including GPT-5, which introduce…

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EP 129: Capex to the Moon 2.0! Bubble Debate, and QCOM and Arm Earnings 57:55

3M ago57:55

57:55

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the latest earnings reports from major tech companies, exploring themes of market dynamics, investment in AI, and the implications of CapEx spending. They delve into the concept of whether we are in a bubble, the challenges of monetizing AI, and the competitive landscape among tech giants like G…

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EP:127 Intel Earnings, Exploring the Possible Scenario of a TSMC Monopoly 31:20

3M ago31:20

31:20

The conversation explores the implications of a potential TSMC monopoly in the semiconductor industry, discussing the risks it poses to pricing, innovation, and competition. The speakers emphasize the need for strategic decisions among semiconductor companies and the importance of considering commercial solutions to mitigate the risks associated wi…

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EP: 126 NVIDIA/AMD Back in China! TSMC Earnings, and Agentic AI Causes Total Infra Upgrade 45:10

3M ago45:10

45:10

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the recent developments in the AI and semiconductor industries, focusing on Nvidia and AMD's approval to sell modified chipsets to China, the political dynamics influencing these decisions, and the competitive landscape with Huawei. They also analyze TSMC's earnings, the need for infrastructure …

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EP 125: What's Going on with RISC-V? Update on Intel, Everything is AI! 38:47

3M ago38:47

38:47

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the recent developments in the RISC-V ecosystem, including Global Foundries' acquisition of MIPS and the implications for the semiconductor industry. They also delve into Intel's challenges with its manufacturing processes and the shifting landscape of AI, highlighting the potential for both gro…

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Rhys Williams on AI, Funding Frustrations & Bull Market Lessons 29:23

4M ago29:23

29:23

On this insightful episode of Buy Hold Sell, co-hosts ⁠⁠⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠Tobin Smith⁠⁠⁠ are joined by ⁠⁠⁠Rhys Williams, CFA⁠⁠⁠, Chief Strategist and Portfolio Manager at ⁠⁠⁠Wayve Capital⁠⁠⁠ just outside Philadelphia. Rhys compares today’s fundraising landscape to the dot-com era—recalling the 1995 Pets.com collapse—shares his bullish…

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Rhys Williams on AI, Funding Frustrations & Bull Market Lessons 29:38

4M ago29:38

29:38

On this insightful episode of Buy Hold Sell, co-hosts Todd M. Schoenberger and Tobin Smith are joined by Rhys Williams, CFA, Chief Strategist and Portfolio Manager at Wayve Capital just outside Philadelphia. Rhys compares today’s fundraising landscape to the dot-com era—recalling the 1995 Pets.com collapse—shares his bullish outlook on the AI-led m…

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Episode 124: The State of The Japanese Semiconductor Industry 43:42

4M ago43:42

43:42

In this conversation, Jay Goldberg and Professor John Metzler discuss the current state and future prospects of the Japanese semiconductor industry, focusing on key players like TSMC and Rapidus. They explore insights from Metzler's recent trips to Japan, the challenges of talent acquisition, and the broader implications for global semiconductor co…

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Fernando Valle on Oil Crash, A.I. Energy, Strait of Hormuz & Cease‑Fire 29:51

4M ago29:51

29:51

Fernando Valle on Oil Crash, A.I. Energy, Strait of Hormuz & Cease‑FireIn this timely episode of Buy Hold Sell, Hedgeye Energy Head ⁠⁠⁠Fernando Valle, CFA⁠⁠⁠, joins hosts ⁠⁠⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠Tobin Smith⁠⁠⁠ to analyze a 7% plunge in oil prices and the transformative role of AI in energy job creation. He offers a geopolitical update: th…

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Fernando Valle on Oil Crash, A.I. Energy, Strait of Hormuz & Cease‑Fire 29:30

4M ago29:30

29:30

Fernando Valle on Oil Crash, A.I. Energy, Strait of Hormuz & Cease‑FireIn this timely episode of Buy Hold Sell, Hedgeye Energy Head ⁠⁠Fernando Valle, CFA⁠⁠, joins hosts ⁠⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Tobin Smith⁠⁠ to analyze a 7% plunge in oil prices and the transformative role of AI in energy job creation. He offers a geopolitical update: the rece…

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Why the U.S. Didn’t Bomb Kharg Island | Fernando Valle on Oil Shock Risk 1:56

4M ago1:56

1:56

In this explosive clip from Buy Hold Sell, ⁠Fernando Valle, CFA⁠, Head of Energy at ⁠Hedgeye Risk Management⁠, reveals the critical importance of Kharg Island—Iran’s main oil export terminal responsible for over 1.3 million barrels per day. Valle explains why bombing Kharg would be a point of no return, potentially triggering Iran to shut down the …

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EP 123: Marvell ASIC TAM, ASIC Challenges Remain, More Semi 2.0 40:37

4M ago40:37

40:37

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the recent Marvell custom semiconductor event, the challenges faced in the custom chip business, and the evolving role of hyperscalers in chip design. They explore the future of ASICs versus GPUs, the growth trajectory of the semiconductor industry, and the impact of software on compute needs. T…

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Maria Jelescu Dreyfus on Long-Short Strategies, Natural Gas, LNG, and the Future of Energy Investing 30:55

4M ago30:55

30:55

In this must-watch episode of Buy Hold Sell, Wall Street veterans ⁠⁠Tobin Smith⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠⁠ sit down with ⁠⁠Maria Jelescu Dreyfus⁠⁠, Founder, CEO, and CIO of ⁠⁠Ardinall Investment Management⁠⁠ — a private investment firm focused on long-short strategies in public markets and the global energy transition.Maria shares her unique pe…

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Maria Jelescu Dreyfus on Long-Short Strategies, Natural Gas, LNG, and the Future of Energy Investing 30:31

4M ago30:31

30:31

In this must-watch episode of Buy Hold Sell, Wall Street veterans ⁠Tobin Smith⁠ and ⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠ sit down with ⁠Maria Jelescu Dreyfus⁠, Founder, CEO, and CIO of ⁠Ardinall Investment Management⁠ — a private investment firm focused on long-short strategies in public markets and the global energy transition.Maria shares her unique perspectiv…

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Episode 122: Apple's WWDC, AMD AI Event, Semiconductors 2.0 37:34

4M ago37:34

37:34

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the recent developments in the tech industry, focusing on Apple's WWDC and AMD's product roadmap. They explore Apple's integration of AI into its operating system and the implications for developers, as well as AMD's performance and its competitive stance against Nvidia. The conversation also hi…

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Buy Hold Sell: Jed Ellerbroek (Argent Capital) on ASICs, AI Infrastructure & New ETF Strategy 31:14

5M ago31:14

31:14

Join ⁠Tobin Smith⁠ (⁠TransformityResearch.com⁠ CIO) and ⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠ (CEO, ⁠CrossCheck Media⁠) as they welcome ⁠Jed Ellerbroek⁠, CFA, Portfolio Manager at ⁠Argent Capital Management⁠ in St. Louis, MO. In this insightful episode: 🎯Jed discusses the tech mega-trend of in-house ASIC development, aimed at reducing reliance on NVIDIA. 🎯Tobin h…

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Buy Hold Sell: Jed Ellerbroek (Argent Capital) on ASICs, AI Infrastructure & New ETF Strategy 30:49

5M ago30:49

30:49

Join ⁠⁠Tobin Smith⁠⁠ (⁠⁠TransformityResearch.com⁠⁠ CIO) and ⁠⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠⁠ (CEO, ⁠⁠CrossCheck Media⁠⁠) as they welcome ⁠⁠Jed Ellerbroek⁠⁠, CFA, Portfolio Manager at ⁠⁠Argent Capital Management⁠⁠ in St. Louis, MO. In this insightful episode: 🎯Jed discusses the tech mega-trend of in-house ASIC development, aimed at reducing reliance on NVID…

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From Pit to Portfolio: Danny Riley on Merc Rivalries, 1987 Crash & Crypto | WealthWise 1:20:47

5M ago1:20:47

1:20:47

In this must-watch episode of WealthWise, host ⁠⁠⁠Jeffrey Hirsch⁠⁠⁠ welcomes ⁠⁠⁠Danny Riley⁠⁠⁠, a legendary figure in trading and CEO of ⁠⁠⁠MrTopStep.com⁠⁠⁠, to discuss his transformative path from floor runner to institutional innovator.Highlights include:👉Early career: Starting in 1979 as a runner on the CBOT grain floor, advancing to the bond ro…

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From Pit to Portfolio: Danny Riley on Merc Rivalries, 1987 Crash & Crypto | WealthWise 1:20:28

5M ago1:20:28

1:20:28

In this must-watch episode of WealthWise, host ⁠⁠Jeffrey Hirsch⁠⁠ welcomes ⁠⁠Danny Riley⁠⁠, a legendary figure in trading and CEO of ⁠⁠MrTopStep.com⁠⁠, to discuss his transformative path from floor runner to institutional innovator.Highlights include:👉Early career: Starting in 1979 as a runner on the CBOT grain floor, advancing to the bond room, an…

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Episode 121: Stop Talking about SAM Please 30:33

5M ago30:33

30:33

In this episode, Ben and Jay discuss the latest developments in the semiconductor industry, particularly focusing on Broadcom's earnings and the implications of AI on the market. They explore the growth of the semiconductor segment, the challenges in ASIC development, and the innovations in networking with the introduction of Tomahawk 6. The conver…

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Power Hour: Jessica Stone on U.S.-China Trade Talks, Tariff Turmoil & Biden's Autopen Controversy 28:16

5M ago28:16

28:16

In this timely episode of Power Hour, host ⁠⁠James Breslo⁠⁠ engages in a compelling conversation with renowned Washington, D.C. correspondent ⁠⁠Jessica Stone⁠⁠. With a distinguished career spanning major outlets like Voice of America, CGTN America, and Stansberry Research, Jessica brings her expertise to dissect the latest developments in global po…

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Power Hour: Jessica Stone on U.S.-China Trade Talks, Tariff Turmoil & Biden's Autopen Controversy 27:54

5M ago27:54

27:54

In this timely episode of Power Hour, host ⁠James Breslo⁠ engages in a compelling conversation with renowned Washington, D.C. correspondent ⁠Jessica Stone⁠. With a distinguished career spanning major outlets like Voice of America, CGTN America, and Stansberry Research, Jessica brings her expertise to dissect the latest developments in global politi…

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Unlocking Alternative Credit: Jillian Murrish on Specialty Finance & Music Royalties | Buy Hold Sell 38:33

5M ago38:33

38:33

In this insightful episode of Buy Hold Sell, Wall Street veterans ⁠Tobin Smith⁠ and ⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠ sit down with ⁠Jillian Murrish⁠, Co-Founder and CEO of ⁠Pier Asset Management⁠, a private credit investment firm focused on niche deals in specialty finance based in Manhattan Beach, California. Jillian delves into her firm's strategic focus o…

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Unlocking Alternative Credit: Jillian Murrish on Specialty Finance & Music Royalties | Buy Hold Sell 38:49

5M ago38:49

38:49

In this insightful episode of Buy Hold Sell, Wall Street veterans Tobin Smith and Todd M. Schoenberger sit down with Jillian Murrish, Co-Founder and CEO of Pier Asset Management, a private credit investment firm focused on niche deals in specialty finance based in Manhattan Beach, California. Jillian delves into her firm's strategic focus on specia…

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Mastering Market Momentum: Alex Spiroglou Unveils the MACD-V on WealthWise 1:16:23

5M ago1:16:23

1:16:23

Mastering Market Momentum: Alex Spiroglou Unveils the MACD-V on WealthWise In this masterclass edition of WealthWise with ⁠Jeffrey Hirsch⁠, we’re joined by ⁠Alex Spiroglou⁠, one of the most forward-thinking minds in modern technical analysis. As the creator of the MACD-V — a groundbreaking volatility-normalized momentum indicator — Alex brings a un…

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Mastering Market Momentum: Alex Spiroglou Unveils the MACD-V on WealthWise 1:16:43

5M ago1:16:43

1:16:43

Mastering Market Momentum: Alex Spiroglou Unveils the MACD-V on WealthWise In this masterclass edition of WealthWise with Jeffrey Hirsch, we’re joined by Alex Spiroglou, one of the most forward-thinking minds in modern technical analysis. As the creator of the MACD-V — a groundbreaking volatility-normalized momentum indicator — Alex brings a unique…

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Episode 120: NVIDIA Earnings, The Future of AI inference, China AI and more 43:07

5M ago43:07

43:07

In this conversation, Jay Goldberg and Austin Lyons discuss Nvidia's recent earnings report, the future of AI and inference, and the dynamics of the AI market, including the impact of China on Nvidia's revenue. They explore the differences between consumer and enterprise workloads, the role of financing in AI server sales, and the challenges of rea…

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Larry Williams Sounds the Alarm: The Deficit Dilemma for Stocks (VIDEO SHORT VERSION) 2:39

5M ago2:39

2:39

Legendary trader Larry Williams joins ⁠WealthWise with Jeffrey Hirsch⁠ to break down the uncomfortable truth about U.S. deficits, government cuts, and the long-term outlook for the stock market. In this clip, Larry delivers a sobering analysis: 📉 Large deficits = bullish stock rallies. 🧾 Cutbacks = less money in circulation. 🕰️ His cycles say the r…

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Tobin Smith on the Bond Market’s “Nuclear Risk” — A Hidden Economic Time Bomb? (VIDEO SHORT VERSION) 2:38

5M ago2:38

2:38

💣 ⁠Tobin Smith⁠ on the Bond Market’s “Nuclear Risk” — A Hidden Economic Time Bomb? 💥 💣 “It feels like everybody's got nuclear bombs of bonds aimed at each other.” — Tobin Smith, CIO at ⁠TransformityResearch.com⁠, delivers a Blunt and Urgent Warning in this explosive clip from Buy Hold Sell, a ⁠CrossCheck Media production⁠. With \$2.3 trillion in ne…

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Sam Stovall Reveals the Smartest Post-Crash Investing Strategy | Buy Hold Sell (VIDEO SHORT VERSION) 1:52

5M ago1:52

1:52

🔥 Sam Stovall Reveals the Smartest Post-Crash Investing Strategy | Buy Hold Sell 🔍📈 In this must-watch clip from Buy Hold Sell: Special Report, ⁠Sam Stovall⁠, Chief Investment Strategist at ⁠CFRA Research⁠, analyzes whether the recent rally from the April 2025 lows is sustainable — or just another bear market bounce. Backed by historical data since…

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Bob Elliott on Democratizing Hedge Fund Strategies: Unlocking Macro Investing for All 47:06

5M ago47:06

47:06

In this insightful episode of Money Mavericks, host ⁠⁠Tobin Smith⁠⁠, CIO of ⁠⁠TransformityResearch.com⁠⁠, sits down with ⁠⁠Bob Elliott⁠⁠, CEO and CIO of ⁠⁠Unlimited Funds⁠⁠. Elliott shares his mission to democratize access to sophisticated hedge fund strategies through innovative ETFs like the Unlimited HFND Multi-Strategy Return Tracker and the ne…

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Bob Elliott on Democratizing Hedge Fund Strategies: Unlocking Macro Investing for All 47:28

5M ago47:28

47:28

In this insightful episode of Money Mavericks, host ⁠Tobin Smith⁠, CIO of ⁠TransformityResearch.com⁠, sits down with ⁠Bob Elliott⁠, CEO and CIO of ⁠Unlimited Funds⁠. Elliott shares his mission to democratize access to sophisticated hedge fund strategies through innovative ETFs like the Unlimited HFND Multi-Strategy Return Tracker and the newly laun…

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Episode 119: Computex, Google I/O, Dell Tech World, and more 37:15

5M ago37:15

37:15

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the major highlights from Computex, including the dominance of AI, NVIDIA's strategic positioning, and the implications of geopolitical factors on the tech industry. They also delve into Google's recent innovations at I/O, the challenges of monetizing AI, and the evolving landscape of consumer A…

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Is the US Economy Stronger Than It Looks? | Peter Boockvar Isn’t So Sure 47:48

5M ago47:48

47:48

In this insightful episode of WealthWise, host ⁠⁠Jeffrey Hirsch⁠⁠, Editor-in-Chief of the ⁠⁠Stock Trader's Almanac⁠⁠, engages with ⁠⁠Peter Boockvar⁠⁠, Chief Investment Officer at ⁠⁠Bleakley Financial Group⁠⁠, to delve into the evolving landscape of global investing.Peter shares his contrarian approach, emphasizing a strategic shift from large-cap t…

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Is the US Economy Stronger Than It Looks? | Peter Boockvar Isn’t So Sure 47:10

5M ago47:10

47:10

In this insightful episode of WealthWise, host ⁠Jeffrey Hirsch⁠, Editor-in-Chief of the ⁠Stock Trader's Almanac⁠, engages with ⁠Peter Boockvar⁠, Chief Investment Officer at ⁠Bleakley Financial Group⁠, to delve into the evolving landscape of global investing.Peter shares his contrarian approach, emphasizing a strategic shift from large-cap tech stoc…

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Episode 118: Weekly Update (Tariffs), AI Budget Spend, Semis and Saudi's 32:59

5M ago32:59

32:59

In this episode, Ben Bajarin and Jay Goldberg discuss the current state of the semiconductor industry, focusing on tariffs, AI budgets, and advancements in technology. They explore the implications of recent tariff discussions, the impact on supply chains, and the ongoing investment in AI infrastructure, particularly in Saudi Arabia. The conversati…

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Bear Market Playbook: Dean Smith Warns of Stagflation and Market Turmoil 36:04

5M ago36:04

36:04

In this Buy Hold Sell Special Report, Wall Street veterans ⁠⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Tobin Smith⁠⁠ sit down with ⁠⁠Dean Smith⁠⁠, Chief Strategist and Portfolio Manager at ⁠⁠FolioBeyond⁠⁠, for a high-stakes conversation on the rising risks of stagflation, market volatility, and the global economic outlook. Dean shares his bearish perspective on…

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Bear Market Playbook: Dean Smith Warns of Stagflation and Market Turmoil 36:16

5M ago36:16

36:16

In this Buy Hold Sell Special Report, Wall Street veterans ⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠ and ⁠Tobin Smith⁠ sit down with ⁠Dean Smith⁠, Chief Strategist and Portfolio Manager at ⁠FolioBeyond⁠, for a high-stakes conversation on the rising risks of stagflation, market volatility, and the global economic outlook. Dean shares his bearish perspective on the U.S…

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Recession or Recovery? Tom Bruce Breaks Down What Wall Street Won’t Say 29:48

5M ago29:48

29:48

📈 Recession or Recovery? Tom Bruce Breaks Down What Wall Street Won’t Say In this insightful episode of Buy Hold Sell, co-hosts ⁠⁠⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠Tobin Smith⁠⁠⁠ welcome ⁠⁠⁠Tom Bruce⁠⁠⁠, Macro Investment Strategist at ⁠⁠⁠Tanglewood Total Wealth Management⁠⁠⁠, to dissect the current economic landscape and its implications for investor…

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Recession or Recovery? Tom Bruce Breaks Down What Wall Street Won’t Say 30:04

5M ago30:04

30:04

📈 Recession or Recovery? Tom Bruce Breaks Down What Wall Street Won’t Say In this insightful episode of Buy Hold Sell, co-hosts ⁠⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Tobin Smith⁠⁠ welcome ⁠⁠Tom Bruce⁠⁠, Macro Investment Strategist at ⁠⁠Tanglewood Total Wealth Management⁠⁠, to dissect the current economic landscape and its implications for investors. 🔍 Key…